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Kenu

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News Record Comments posted by Kenu

  4. ECL 12 Qualifiers Info

    in ECL

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Mikka said:

    Lite teams being higher seeded than the Pro teams also means that at least I, personally, would in the "real" qualifier format prefer to be the 13th rank in Pro instead of 12th. "Why is that?", you may ask. Well, in the format that's going to be in use starting next season, the only difference to the seedings I posted above is that Pro bottom4 will be directly replaced with top4 of core. --> the 12th and 14th placed Pro teams will be in the same group with each other, meanwhile the 13th place teams will be the lone Pro teams in their groups, as seen below.

    ECL_Promotion_System_ECL_Pro.jpg

    I haven't had enough sleep to think about how this could be solved or even if I'm the only one thinking like this, but I'll just drop this here. I thought I commented about this on the original article but it appears I didn't, so sorry for the late feedback :/

    Thanks for this @Mikka.

    For clarity, the below discussion concerns ECL 13 - not the upcoming season.

    Also, the below are my own interpretations that have not been verified and represent only my personal thoughts.


    My interpretation of the groups would be as follows, with the 12th Pro teams being the ones not to have other Pro teams in the groups.

    Quote

     

    ECL 13 hypothetical Pro Qualifier groups based on current structure:

    Group 1

    #1 Pro 12th

    #8 Lite 5th

    #12 Lite 9th

    #16 Core 4th

    #20 WILDCARD

    Group 2

    #2 Pro 12th

    #7 Lite 4th

    #11 Lite 8th

    #15 Core 3rd

    #19 WILDCARD

    Group 3

    #3 Pro 13th

    #6 Pro 15th

    #10 Lite 7th

    #14 Core 2nd

    #18 WILDCARD

    Group 4

    #4 Pro 13th

    #5 Pro 14th

    #9 Lite 6th

    #13 Core 1st

    #17 WILDCARD

     

    Thus the 13th placed team would indeed face another Pro-team, right? Or am I misinterpreting you? :) 

     

    42 minutes ago, imosi said:

    On a personal level I also see it a bit odd, that the captain is enough to ”own” the team and its enough to keep the team spot. Just kick the whole team and get new players in after a ”bad” season? I dont think that is the key for a good success in a long run. 

    How would you personally formulate the team ownership rule? 

     

    1 hour ago, imosi said:

    Unfortunately this isnt anything new and this has happened before every new ecl season.  This is why need these new ideas and systems. 

    However at the moment the ”new system” is maybe a bit too confusing and hard to understand.

    Or maybe im just dumb😬..

    Haha, you're not dumb. It's a pretty hefty package to comprehend, while simultaneously needing all of those details to cover a lot of things and "dumbing it down" could risk the integrity of the text. But note taken, if there are options to make an easier to digest version.

  5. ECL 12 Qualifiers Info

    in ECL

    Posted · Edited by Kenu
    Added clarification about season 13

    I can definitely understand and appreciate the passionate response regarding the subject. That being said, I have to make it clear that any personal attacks on staff members will not be tolerated. This applies to this topic and all topics. We are happy to receive your feedback and discuss the subject, but going after staff members individually is not ok. We are all passionate about what we are doing here and while our opinions may not always align, it doesn’t mean that we don’t want the same end result.

    At the end of the day it comes down to the fact that we announced how this would work on the 30th of December and at this point are honouring what we described the procedure would be. We received some feedback and criticism at that point and made some immediate adjustments to some valid points that were brought up. One of these points of feedback was not how the teams would be promoted in the case of unforseen spots in the divisions. As a reminder, here’s how it was outlined in the New Division and Promotion Structure article:

    Quote

    If there happens to be more open spots than anticipated (e.g. from teams disbanding which would have been invited to play in the qualifier, or owned a spot to the division in question), we will award the next highest ranked playoff team each spot, whilst the next highest ranked potential qualifier eligible team will replace them in the qualifier. This procedure will be carried out for each and every extra unforeseen spot.

    In this case, there were as many as five (5) unforeseen spots in Pro and we filled them as previously announced. Is it the right approach? Depends who you ask, and we’re open for feedback on this - preferably also from teams that are not in any way involved in this procedure currently, so we can get a broader view on the subject.

    Either way, we do not believe it would be right to change the rules for this a few days before the qualifiers. So while the question about whether or not this was the right approach to begin with may be legitimate, we have stuck to the original plan and not undermined anyone’s chances.

    As for the screenshot of the registration news story - valid feedback, this notion lacks specification on our part. It is referring to the spots that are available by default as per plan - seven (7) for Pro and does not take into account spots opened due to other circumstances such as teams disbanding. We apologise for the obvious lack of specification.

    I hope we can keep this discussion productive and develop the structure in a way where we can all agree on the amendments to make to the qualifications for season 13.

    Does everyone agree that in the future (from season 13), every free spot - both default and unforeseen - should be made be available through the qualifiers? For clarity, I am not referring to the instant promotion spots that are available through finishing top 3 in Lite etc.

    Thanks for all the constructive feedback, for example by @Mikka. I will address some of them in a separate message.

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  11. The ECL is now bigger than ever - Sign up for ECL 12 now!

    in ECL

    Posted

     

    5 hours ago, Exodustie said:

    Still cant register our team. 

    • The EA Club ID has already been taken.

     

    3 hours ago, Buddhaiser said:

    Same here

     

    43 minutes ago, eckeson said:

    Same

     

    Thanks for the info, we wanted to get the fix out quickly, but apparently it could have needed some further testing as it only worked for a few new teams before hitting that problem. We'll let you know when this is fixed.

  15. ECL 12 Season Information

    in ECL

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Zip player said:

    Sign-up period 1: 22.3-7.4, applies to

    • ECL Elite
      Regular Season Kick-Off Dates:
    • ECL Elite 24.5

      Okaay Ok GIF by MOODMAN

    The long break between signups and kick off is due to the information about participating teams being vital for being able to determine the available spots that the qualifiers are played for. Our goal is also to cover the finals of each division in the order of Neo - Core - Lite - Pro & Elite as per previous year feedback that the season should end with the Elite finals coverage, also giving everyone the opportunity to enjoy the Elite (and other) finals instead of playing at the same time. As always, we are open to feedback on this topic for the future seasons.

    • Like 3

  16. ECL 12 Season Information

    in ECL

    Posted

    17 minutes ago, Tuukka.R said:

    I think almost every team wants to play some sort of tournament before ECL 12. Hopefully this warm-up tournament has some kinda division or level system! For example elite and pro teams plays together etc..

    Thanks for the feedback. We would be interested in hearing the wishes on the type of warm-up tournament that everyone would want - should it be a total wild west or elite + pro, lite + core + neo type of system, or what would you like to see? We have to keep in mind that the teams playing in the qualifiers might have a harder time participating - and perhaps they should not, as they have up to 3 weeks of qualifying games to play either way(?).

     

    Edit: It would probably make most sense to put Pro and Elite together as they start their season later and have the opportunity to play the warm-up tournament longer than the other divisions.

    • Like 1

  18. ECL 12 Season Information

    in ECL

    Posted

    45 minutes ago, rapitzin said:

    The teams that win or lose in the Lite qualifiers - do they automatically signup for Lite or Core after the qualifiers or do they sign up in advance for both Lite and Core?

    Correct, they will sign up for the one division and be moved based on the result of the qualifier. More details to follow when the sign-ups go live.

    • Like 1

  19. ECL 12 Season Information

    in ECL

    Posted

    As @J-Foppa says above, there are lots of factors at play when deciding on the timelines of leagues and tournaments. ECL is the biggest NHL esports league in the world and we do our best to give players of all levels an enjoyable experience. This is why we've put an enormous effort into the divisional system, rulebook and broadcasting. The audience and players (ideally) only see the success of our work we put in and not the hundreds or thousands of hours that perhaps could have resulted in something amazing, but didn't bear fruit. 

    We've been asked for communication on leagues and tournaments earlier ahead of time and this is feedback that we take seriously and something that also makes our own lives easier. Our original plan was to run the FCL and SCL in the gap that all Finns and Swedes have been experiencing after the ECL 11 season, simultaneously with the GCL, WECL etc. Unfortunately that plan didn't pan out. We were unable to guarantee the FCL and SCL at the capacity that the players have come to expect, so we made the decision together with our prospective partners to aim for the end of the NHL 21 lifecycle with regard to the  Finnish and Swedish Championships, in other words after ECL 12. Our goal for NHL 22 is to change this order into ECL 13 - FCL/GCL/SCL - ECL 14.

    While it on the surface level can look like very little has happened since the end of the ECL 11 season, a lot of time has gone into reflecting on the previous seasons, improving our routines, introducing new policies, planning ahead and working on securing long-term partnerships that enable us to plan a year ahead rather than 3 months. Honestly, in my opinion that's the only way we can keep developing our ecosystem and creating the best leagues and tournaments in the world.

    Your feedback is welcome, as always - I just ask you to try to keep in mind that the planning of these leagues and tournaments nowadays is slightly more complicated than drawing a rectangle into the calendar. The demand for high prize pools, more broadcasts and high quality content is always rising and in this case that has meant more preparation than ever.

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  21. ECL 11 Lite Playoffs: Finals Preview

    in ECL

    Posted

     

    22 hours ago, Jann3_67_ said:

    So when and how will the bronze medalist be decided?

    Sorry about that information missing.

    The third place (and thus the promotion to ECL Pro) will be decided by a BO7 series between Grenoble BDL Esport (home) and Hotbox (away). The games are scheduled for Sunday (2), Tuesday (2) and Wednesday (3) - but teams are allowed to agree on rescheduling.

    • Like 1

  22. New division and promotion structure [UPDATED 17/03/21]

    in ECL

    Posted

    18 hours ago, iSvamp said:

    Det fungerar för större Esporter. Så varför skulle det vara en begränsning för NHL? 

     

    Sist jag lyfte denna idé så var NHLgamers motargument

    "Vi har inte tid". Ändå kom det efter den kommentaren 4st turneringar i Spring League, SCL, Summer Cup och ett finskt SM. 

    Att peta in ett ECL där hade ni med facit i hand mäktat med. 

    Vi såg även i somras att hungern för att spela fanns hos majoriteten av ECL-lagen. 

    Så varför vi kör samma ECL struktur 2020 som vi gjorde med EHL/EC 2010-15 är ju rätt konstigt om vi vill att Esporten ska växa. 

    En seriös Esport org har inga problem att mäta sig med andra mer än 2 ggr per år. Jag lovar att alla skulle tycka (tillslut) att det vore fantastiskt att mäta sina muskler med varandra oftare än vad lagen får göra nu. 

    Vi skulle förmodligen se fler nya stjärnor tampas med de bästa med fler tävlingar varje år än dagens 2 officiella EM. 

    Well done ignoring my points and writing in Swedish. 👍🏼

    Doesn't mute your points, but doesn't make for much of a conversation. Please write in English or we'll have to remove the messages. 

     

     

    Edit: As you continue arguing and provoking in Swedish, I have hidden the messages, as promised. The (first) original message can be read in the quote above.

    In his response (hidden, due to continuing in Swedish) he claims I'm escaping his questions rather than answering and that I'm being a "big leader who gets things to look good by deleting messages". Additionally, he expects every page to separately say "English only", despite that being our policy for the 5+ years he's been a member. 

    I'm always interested having a proper discussion about these things, evaluate different options and get different views. I have my opinions and I do my best to explain why I see things in a certain way and what the problem areas of another approach might be from my point of view. From my point of view you ignored what I wrote, continue writing in a language that most people here don't understand (I do, but this is a public discussion) and top it off by acting disrespectfully.

    I think it's ridiculous that you keep brining up a claim that ECL has the same structure as EHL/EC 2010-2015. Yes, ECL runs twice a year and has a hockey-esque regular season + playoffs, but if you don't acknowledge all of the other development that has happened from those days - then I'm afraid we just see things very differently.

    You say I used "we don't have time" as the argument for not running more ECL's in a year and yet succeeded in "running a Spring League, SCL, Summer Cup and Finnish Championships after the fact". If your view of NHL esports is to play ECL, then ECL, then ECL, then ECL, then ECL and then some more ECL, then yeah, sure - we should probably scrap all of that. From my point of view, the different tournaments and leagues are things that keep it fresh and make winning the "biggies" exciting. I love the ECL. I love the World Championships. I love the Olympics. I love the NHL. Yet I wouldn't want to watch any of these four all year and the competitors wouldn't have time to participate in all of these. That is my main point - keeping it interesting. Making titles mean something. Letting champions celebrate their championships.

    Am I 100% satisfied with everything we do? Are we making the right call every time? Are we spending every minute efficiently? Of course not. Are we creating something incredibly nice and keep pushing the envelope in NHL esports - I believe so. Constructive feedback will continue to push us to greater things. However you package your feedback, we will receive it and consider it, but it makes no sense for me to take the time and effort to respond if you're just going to ignore my points and continue being offensive.

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  23. New division and promotion structure [UPDATED 17/03/21]

    in ECL

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Virtual_Saku said:

    First guys congrats for this outstanding job done, especially to @MartindalexC for taking the time of writting all that stuff.

    I have two questions : 

    1- will teams made with some former Elite/Pro players that want to play "for fun" be allowed in Neo?
    2- what is the plan if, for example, a team runs the qualifier for Lite, wins it and then, finally changes smthg like 40% or more of its roster? I mean the former roster is legit but the new one, not necesseraly

    Thanks for your answers 

    Big tip of the hat to the entire LA team, but since one was mentioned above, I'll additionally tip my hat to @Franky__2768 who put in a lot of work.

     

    1) I don't think we're going to ban individual players with Elite/Pro history from playing in Neo as a rule, as maybe someone wants to pull a Jagr to continue their career with some friends and that doesn't hurt the integrity of the division. That being said, spontaneously, I think Core would be a better level for this.

    As for a team with lots of experience playing in Neo - no. That is not the right place for you.

     

    2) Roster rules in the rulebook apply. Feedback on how to potentially improve said rules is always appreciated.

  24. New division and promotion structure [UPDATED 17/03/21]

    in ECL

    Posted

    17 hours ago, Keuschemisch said:

    First of all I want to thank all the People who are involved in this decision and process and how much time they invested for this Game we all love (and sometimes hate :D) to play. I appreciate that there will be a new league between the Neo and Lite to reduce the skill gap between existing and newstarting teams. Between clubs which play just for fun or those that follow a more competetive goal. As someone who most likely will be affected by the qualification tournament for the ECL Pro I have to say that I do not see the sense in that qualifier. It is hard enough to get promoted and even harder to stay in the League. So why should additional Teams ranked 12th to 14th (that normally would have stayed in the League) in their Pro-Group play an additional tournament to fight for staying up. Considering even more that the Schedule around ECL and national tournaments is busy and gets even busier now. I do not see how this additional qualifier increases the competetiveness at this Level and teams achievements from last seasons will not be as worthy as they were before and should be? The biggest Problem I see is that this big decision is made during the season - 3 Matchdays before the Season ends the whole Relegation System is changed. That's something which should have been done in a different way. For Example: Implementing ECL Core for coming ECL12 and changing the Promotion System for Pro in ECL13. So all competing Teams know what they have to do to stay in the League before it starts. Furthermore a occuring problem is that a Pro Team that finishes 14-12 has a few weeks without a league Game and needs to compete immediately against Teams from different Leagues which are freshly out of the Playoffs and in better shape & rhythm.

    Thanks for the feedback. Definitely understand the criticism. We did say before the start of the season that there would be changes made to the 11->12 structure and it is mentioned in the rulebook - but of course we would have ideally had the exact information out sooner.

    Previously, teams 13-16 have faced the fear of relegation, so the fear of elimination was always there for those teams.

    We do agree that the "sudden" immediate relegation for teams in 15th and 16th spot is too harsh at this stage in the season, so we put together a compromise for the transition between ECL 11 and 12 that allows for every team to have a chance to prove their worth.


     ECL_Pro_11_to_12_transition_img.jpg

     

    1. Lite playoff team (4th)
    2. Lite playoff team (5th)
    3. Lite playoff team (6th)
    4. Lite playoff team (7th)
    5. Lite playoff team (8th)
    6. Lite playoff team (9th)
    7. Pro relegation team (12th)
    8. Pro relegation team (12th)
    9. Pro relegation team (13th)
    10. Pro relegation team (13th)
    11. Pro relegation team (14th)
    12. Pro relegation team (14th)
    13. Pro relegation team (15th)
    14. Pro relegation team (15th)
    15. Pro relegation team (16th)
    16. Pro relegation team (16th)
    17. Wildcard
    18. Wildcard
    19. Wildcard
    20. Wildcard

     

    Seven (7) out of these twenty (20) teams participating in the ECL Pro Qualification tournament will play in ECL Pro 12.

     

     

    3 hours ago, iSvamp said:

    Another division.. nice

    Now we REALLY need more than 2 ECL tournaments per year 

    Make them shorter, get more admins, make it happen. 

    I don't personally agree with this, but as always, feel free to convince me otherwise. :)

    We made some important structural changes that allows for teams to be "fast-tracked" to higher divisions by giving them opportunities to prove themselves. This should mean that teams find their accurate level of competition as fast, if not faster than before.

    To me, ECL is a league, not a quick-burst tournament. By shortening the season and cramming in more victors, you're potentially lessening the value of each individual season. Additionally, in the process you're probably preventing teams/players from taking part in other tournaments, because it's always running.

    That is not to say that a structure like you describe couldn't or won't work. I just don't think it's as simple as it sounds.

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