Show me the money!

[JakePlay77]

According to the limited company law every limited company should have shareholder list and it should be available to anyone if requested. In Finland operating limited company is (should be) visible so there are many regulations these companies must obey. Shareholder list is one of them and also publishing the finacial statement annually to PRH for available to everyone who are interested in it. Sports Gamer Oy is breaking now at least one regulation which is that the financial statements are not public for past two years.

[Simbee434]

56 minuuttia sitten, JakePlay77 kirjoitti:

According to the limited company law every limited company should have shareholder list and it should be available to anyone if requested. In Finland operating limited company is (should be) visible so there are many regulations these companies must obey. Shareholder list is one of them and also publishing the finacial statement annually to PRH for available to everyone who are interested in it. Sports Gamer Oy is breaking now at least one regulation which is that the financial statements are not public for past two years.

What rule are they actually breaking? Have you requested their financial statements from PRH? I’ve reviewed the stakeholder (beneficiary) list myself, and anyone can verify the details through the proper channels — including financial reports up to the end of 2022.

Legally, they’re only required to provide these documents to potential lenders or investors to secure funding. As customers or participants, it’s up to each of us to decide whether we want to continue supporting this league.

If they violate these obligations, they can be removed from the Trade Register and EPR immediately until they comply. As of now, they are listed in both.

[JakePlay77]

8 minuuttia sitten, Simbee434 kirjoitti:

 

What rule are they actually breaking? Have you requested their financial statements from PRH? I’ve reviewed the stakeholder (beneficiary) list myself, and anyone can verify the details through the proper channels — including financial reports up to the end of 2022.

Legally, they’re only required to provide these documents to potential lenders or investors to secure funding. As customers or participants, it’s up to each of us to decide whether we want to continue supporting this league.

If they violate these obligations, they can be removed from the Trade Register and EPR immediately until they comply. As of now, they are listed in both.

They have not sent financial reports to PRH. That is why they are not there. You can´t request those from PRH on Sports Gamer Oy financial reports 2023-2024 because they are not sent there. That is really serious offence according to Finnish limited company law. Those documents must be available to everyone who wish to have them. In PRH there is available only documents from 2021 and 2022 but not others. It is simple as that.

They are not requiered to provide financial documents only to investors and lenders. They should be public to everyone who is interested to have them. That is the fact. I am working in accounting and know this law of accounting and limited companies etc.

[JakePlay77]

15 minuuttia sitten, Simbee434 kirjoitti:

 

 

If they violate these obligations, they can be removed from the Trade Register and EPR immediately until they comply. As of now, they are listed in both.

They are at the moment but one day they will be removed from there. There is thousands of companies in that register. PRH removes regularly some of them who have not sent those documents. 

But however, the reason Sports Gamer Oy have not sent financial statements to PRH has most likely something to do that they have not paid these prize moneys. The company who operates correctly sends financial statements to PRH. If they are not sent something is wrong with accounting and operations of the company. Simple as that.

[Oliverigood]

Thanks Sportsgamer for coming out with some sort of gloss over explanation of what is going on. The big question now is: What about the upcoming season(s)?

It is pretty obvious that the money owed in the playerbase needs to be paid back for those who want it, before the next season starts and more money is asked to be paid up for the company, because from now on people will invest their money with 100% risk of never winning anything back from the prize pool. If the company goes bankruptcy, people will never see their money and have no legal ways to demand it to be paid back.

Unfortunately the "community dream" is becoming the end company. However the majority of the community never wanted or dreamed about massive prize pools or esports lifestyle, we just want to play competitive but not too serious hockey with friends and have fun! Now this part of the community is becoming the backbone of saving the company which is absolutely wrong.  

After all this I firmly believe that most of the community is ready to help with some sort of resurrection when it all goes down. However this requires pure honesty and open planning with the whole community. What ever the scenario is, money is needed to be paid back to someone and with small fees and time, there should be a way to go back to the glory days of NHLGamer. For Kenu I want to say, I hope you are doing well and remember there is better days ahead.  

[JakePlay77]

39 minuuttia sitten, Oliverigood kirjoitti:

goes bankruptcy, people will never see their money and have no legal ways to demand it to be paid back.

 

In case of bankcrupty, the only way players who are entitled to prize pool money will get what Sports Gamer Oy ows them if they are biggest recievers in bankcrupt situation. But if there is lenders that Sports Gamer Oy ows more then they are the priority in case of bankcrupty.

But most important from Sports Gamer Oy is honesty to players what really has happened. And also it is priority to publish financial statements to PRH from 2023-2024. If they are not published who will believe what Sports Gamer Oy executives say? No one. I won´t believe a word what they say until I see those documents myself. 

I am not one of those who Sports Gamer Oy ows any money. I am just on side of those players who Sports Gamer Oy ows money. I want justice to happen and players recieving their money. And if it is not possible in case of bankcrupty,  I want at least full, honest reveal of Sports Gamer Oy on this matter. It is not very good policy them not to publish financial statements from 2023-2024 and then it is revealed that some players that are entitled to their prize money have not got those money what they deserve.

So I am urging: All the facts and figures public from Sports Gamer Oy finances. That is the only way they can get our trust back.

People - including Kenu - have done great over the years in this community organizing ECL, FCL etc. I hate to see this financial dishonesty will loose our trust to these fine people. So facts on the table as soon as possible. The missing financial statements public to PRH.

[Yoloberg]

Matti won pro no money has seen, is any possibility money come? Laki juristi calling?

[Jnmxxx]

Does anybody know how much money are missing and what has been prioritised when they paid the prizes? Elite teams?

[Edgard_gcn]

Rather than wasting our time waiting for a answer every 10 years... taking the risk of giving again without being sure we'll ever see what we're owed.

 

There are alternatives elsewhere. Where we're working on a possibility to save all the players who want to continue eSports, at least in 6s.

I have lost all faith and confidence in SG. 

If players want something new, I suggest a discussion with all the team captains on Discord. 

[iSvamp]

#PayWhatYouOwe

[iSvamp]

2 timmar sedan, Oliverigood säger:

Thanks Sportsgamer for coming out with some sort of gloss over explanation of what is going on. The big question now is: What about the upcoming season(s)?

It is pretty obvious that the money owed in the playerbase needs to be paid back for those who want it, before the next season starts and more money is asked to be paid up for the company, because from now on people will invest their money with 100% risk of never winning anything back from the prize pool. If the company goes bankruptcy, people will never see their money and have no legal ways to demand it to be paid back.

Unfortunately the "community dream" is becoming the end company. However the majority of the community never wanted or dreamed about massive prize pools or esports lifestyle, we just want to play competitive but not too serious hockey with friends and have fun! Now this part of the community is becoming the backbone of saving the company which is absolutely wrong.  

After all this I firmly believe that most of the community is ready to help with some sort of resurrection when it all goes down. However this requires pure honesty and open planning with the whole community. What ever the scenario is, money is needed to be paid back to someone and with small fees and time, there should be a way to go back to the glory days of NHLGamer. For Kenu I want to say, I hope you are doing well and remember there is better days ahead.  

Funny how the “esports dream” turned into a debt collection story.
Let’s be honest. We’ve all been paying for seasons with a massive risk of never seeing that money again. The only difference now is that more people in the community finally realize it.

Not a single cent should go to this website until they have paid their debts to the players. If that means the platform collapses, so be it. At least then it would be transparent. You can’t revive something that’s already dead.

And yes, we know the admins are reading. The silence after their last statement says it all. More questions, zero answers. Silence doesn’t look professional. It looks guilty.

#PayThePlayers

[MartindalexC]

2 hours ago, iSvamp said:

Funny how the “esports dream” turned into a debt collection story.
Let’s be honest. We’ve all been paying for seasons with a massive risk of never seeing that money again. The only difference now is that more people in the community finally realize it.

Not a single cent should go to this website until they have paid their debts to the players. If that means the platform collapses, so be it. At least then it would be transparent. You can’t revive something that’s already dead.

And yes, we know the admins are reading. The silence after their last statement says it all. More questions, zero answers. Silence doesn’t look professional. It looks guilty.

#PayThePlayers

Respectfully Svamp, what is it exactly that you want the "admins" to do here? Do you want us to reply to every post with a "yasss kween slayyy", or a "ur so right babe"? 

You can ascribe guilt to the admins all you want with as much fervour as you can muster, still doesn't make even a little bit of it true. 

Do I know the behind the scenes info about the financial state of affairs of SportsGamer? Lol, lmao even. 

[iSvamp]

16 minuter sedan, MartindalexC säger:

Respectfully Svamp, what is it exactly that you want the "admins" to do here? Do you want us to reply to every post with a "yasss kween slayyy", or a "ur so right babe"? 

You can ascribe guilt to the admins all you want with as much fervour as you can muster, still doesn't make even a little bit of it true. 

Do I know the behind the scenes info about the financial state of affairs of SportsGamer? Lol, lmao even. 

Respectfully? Let’s not hide behind that word.

You don’t need to reply “yass queen slay,” but you could start by acknowledging that players have been waiting years for prize money that was promised and advertised. That’s not drama or opinion, that’s a fact.

When you say you don’t know the financial state of SportsGamer, that’s actually part of the problem. You’re an admin for a platform that has repeatedly taken money from its players through license fees, team fees, and sponsor-backed tournaments, yet you admit you don’t know where the money goes. That’s exactly why people are speaking up.

This isn’t about guilt, it’s about accountability. The trust that once existed between the community and the platform has been completely broken, and every dismissive or sarcastic reply only widens that gap.

You can laugh all you want, but the players, the ones who literally keep your platform alive, aren’t laughing. We’re the reason this community exists in the first place.

So no, I don’t want a “yass queen.” I want transparency, responsibility, and for the people who built this scene to stop being treated like they’re disposable.

[MartindalexC]

27 minutes ago, iSvamp said:

Respectfully? Let’s not hide behind that word.

You don’t need to reply “yass queen slay,” but you could start by acknowledging that players have been waiting years for prize money that was promised and advertised. That’s not drama or opinion, that’s a fact.

When you say you don’t know the financial state of SportsGamer, that’s actually part of the problem. You’re an admin for a platform that has repeatedly taken money from its players through license fees, team fees, and sponsor-backed tournaments, yet you admit you don’t know where the money goes. That’s exactly why people are speaking up.

This isn’t about guilt, it’s about accountability. The trust that once existed between the community and the platform has been completely broken, and every dismissive or sarcastic reply only widens that gap.

You can laugh all you want, but the players, the ones who literally keep your platform alive, aren’t laughing. We’re the reason this community exists in the first place.

So no, I don’t want a “yass queen.” I want transparency, responsibility, and for the people who built this scene to stop being treated like they’re disposable.

I'd say that you should be able to understand that respectfully was used in jest but chatgpt doesn't really pick up on sarcasm too well eh?

Anyway, no I don't know the behind the scenes because I'm not an employee of the company. If I was then having that understanding would be anticipated, however on account of myself making a grand total of 0p over the decade I've been helping out here imma go ahead and say that it's not appropriate for me to have an intimate knowledge of those specifics.

Bluntly, it's a valid complaint that people have, and as a tournament organiser (be that person, or company) the absolute zenith of any responsibility should be paying people out their winnings - you'd agree right? Obviously, the 'solution' is to pay out the people who are still not whole, and examine the financials so that something even vaguely similar never happens again - of course equally I don't need to tell you that the horses have kinda bolted before the gate here so any 'solution' is going to be more than a singular action. 

I'm not part of the ownership though, realistically they're the only ones that can do anything here, and they are the ones that should be responsible to fielding valid questions people have about them. 

Edited 5 hours ago by MartindalexC

[iSvamp]

6 minuter sedan, MartindalexC säger:

I'd say that you should be able to understand that respectfully was used in jest but chatgpt doesn't really pick up on sarcasm too well eh?

Anyway, no I don't know the behind the scenes because I'm not an employee of the company. If I was then having that understanding would be anticipated, however on account of myself making a grand total of 0p over the decade I've been helping out here imma go ahead and say that it's not appropriate for me to have an intimate knowledge of those specifics.

Bluntly, it's a valid complaint that people have, and as a tournament organiser (be that person, or company) the absolute zenith of any responsibility should be paying people out their winnings - you'd agree right? Obviously, the 'solution' is to pay out the people who are still not whole, and examine the financials so that something even vaguely similar happens again - of course equally I don't need to tell you that the horses have kinda bolted before the gate here so any 'solution' is going to be more than a singular action. 

I'm not part of the ownership though, realistically they're the only ones that can do anything here, and they are the ones that should be responsible to fielding valid questions people have about them. 

It might actually be a good idea to use a program to get your grammar right. But if you want to use that as some sort of insult, that’s up to you. Maybe it’s even something you should consider yourself, to help correct the same kind of errors that happen when you play games. The hands, just like mine, aren’t quite what they used to be.

If you want to go down that road and make this personal with small jabs, then fine. I can do the same and be completely transparent with you.

You know what, maybe you should start using ChatGPT to think for you, because whatever that reply was supposed to be, it came out incredibly awkward.

But credit where it’s due. It’s actually impressive to see you finally speak up. You’ve built quite the reputation for avoiding conflict and hiding behind your friends, so it’s refreshing to see you step out and actually respond instead of disappearing like usual.

Now to the point. Nobody here ever expected you or the other volunteer admins to personally fix the finances or issue payments. The frustration isn’t aimed at the people who helped moderate tournaments or update brackets. It’s aimed at the person hiding behind the official SportsGamer account yesterday, who posted that confusing statement that somehow managed to make everything even less clear.

You say you’re not part of the ownership, and that’s fair. But that’s exactly why your reply misses the point. You stepped into a discussion about accountability from the organization itself, not from unpaid helpers. When you admit you have zero insight while still trying to defend the situation, it comes across as defensive and misplaced.

What people want isn’t another “I don’t know.” They want transparency from the people who took the money. The community has already done the math, and none of it adds up. There are debts, missing funds, and companies linked to the same structure that raise serious questions. Every vague or sarcastic answer just makes it worse.

Nobody is asking you to solve this. But maybe stop treating legitimate criticism like it’s drama. Because while you might not have earned anything in ten years, a lot of players here have earned something worse, complete distrust.

[plaaplaa72]

The only way for SG to gain any trust nor respect our of this is to;

1) Arrange any unpaid prize money to be paid

And the most important one;

2) Transparency, facts, everything about where the money went, where did it go wrong, what happened?

What people want is not words, but "receipts", breakdowns of money gained, where it went and was used.

If SG can't provide or doesn't want to provide these facts, then they are hiding the numbers for one or more reasons, which is a shameful look on the corp(?).

[Grizzly17]

@SportsGamer you should be reading this instead of leaving it to your admins to fight a battle that isn’t theirs…

 

We’re all waiting for a response

[Simbee434]

This post was made to get to the bottom of why the prize pool money hasn’t been paid to the players, as promised, within 90 days of the season ending. It’s not about blaming anyone  especially not the admins. Why would they know anything about the company’s financials or what’s happening behind closed doors? So for fk sake stop directing your frustration at them.

The question was and is simple: Where is the prize pool money?
Nothing else matters. If the money has been used or redirected, the players deserve a transparent explanation and proof to legitimize that decision. Not that the cost have gone up, that can’t be the explanation to this question.

 

[Jiihooo86]

Its really interesting to read these comments about the transparency , who to blaim to , who is what and who is not , facts etc etc. I think everyone is totally in agreement that winnings should be paid fully , right? So lets leave that topic aside.

What comes to the current ownership , correct me if im wrong but the brothers who are now in charge have shady past with other companies and finnish law. First thing comes to my mind is background check... Should that been done and have it been done before selling the majority of shares?

2nd thing is mostly my oppinion. Kenu has been in a volunteer "contract" and hasnt recieve any payments. Imo when kenu ran the whole thing when NHLgamer was the name , everything went smoothly , or is it my old memory that fails ? I want to thank kenu deeply for those times and i miss that era. Personal memories are warm and sterng from there with all the commentary "jobs" with kenu and arttu and also other great people that i had the pleasure to work.

3rd thing that weighs on my head is financial things. So if its the case that community calculation are in fact correct , it raises so many questions that should be anwered. Where all the money went that was left after the costs... Because this community isnt stupid. The only way to solve that question is to give people the answer that they so urgently need. Where is our money going that we have paid to sportsgamer and their owners. The concerns of the community that falls around the current ownerships agenda and money usage is totally legit. And that needs to be answered. The reason for those concerns comes the history of the current ownerships , and that history makes these demands fair and reasonable imo.

And my last opinion is going to be this. As hard it can be , lets try to keep conversation respectful , even it feels like really hard thing to do with all these things still not to be answered. 

 

[iSvamp]

1 timme sedan, Simbee434 säger:

This post was made to get to the bottom of why the prize pool money hasn’t been paid to the players, as promised, within 90 days of the season ending. It’s not about blaming anyone  especially not the admins. Why would they know anything about the company’s financials or what’s happening behind closed doors? So for fk sake stop directing your frustration at them.

The question was and is simple: Where is the prize pool money?
Nothing else matters. If the money has been used or redirected, the players deserve a transparent explanation and proof to legitimize that decision. Not that the cost have gone up, that can’t be the explanation to this question.

 

Correct. If other mods decide to join the discussion, they should expect a response, especially if they do it with a bit of sarcasm, irony, or attitude.

Otherwise you’re absolutely right. This is where we’re at, and meanwhile another site with a new tournament format is already being built.

That’s the bottom line. The money is gone, but where did it go?

[tkantola]

We will thinking to made new leagues for players. Maybe low fees or free to play, just because guys want to PLAY 6s.
 

 Hit some reaction if you're interest about new tournaments, for everyone and different levels of players.

Good night gamer. It was nice ride, not crying about fees for hobbies but if we have some prizepools, you NEED TO PAY funds back for winners. Sadly Kenu sold that firm for untrusted brothers, it's not community responsibly to fix that financial problem year to year. Everything went to down when NHLGamer turned into SG.
 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by tkantola

[kriketski17]

 good song go listen to it.    if gamer doenst come out with real facts and info i will not agree to pay for the missing money, because it will go lost again eventually, i have had known about gamers problems for some time so im not suprised, only suprise to me is why they havent tried to help themself with money from previous seasons when they have known about problems, to my 1+1 counting i can understand they should have some money left on pocket most probable thing is what happend is that owners too money hungry but cant really know before facts 

[Axelsson]

I mean how hard can it be to say where the money is? This silence will only make them lose more teams than they already have. but maybe they dont care anymore.

Edited 2 hours ago by Axelsson

[xrikardo55]

It's getting to be high time to step up. It's unbelievable that we just keep our mouths shut. WAKE UP saatana

Edited 49 minutes ago by xrikardo55

[pappeen-]

Welcome to the Sportsgamer circus

#PayThePlayers