ECL wishlist

[OxtreeLAT]

Well this thread turned ugly real quick. Lets face it - there are both good reasons for and against it. Either way - it's rather obvious that there's one side pushing their own personal agenda in order to get them in a better position for the upcoming tournaments.

That said, I'm personally against giving teams a free pass, regardless of the circumstances. Why? Because it completely undermines the whole division system and at that point one can easily question why there's a need for such system in the first place. Also this would set a precedent where other teams could try doing the same and ask for a free pass to advance to higher divisions. Who will decide if a team belongs to be placed in a higher division? Who exactly has the knowledge and capabilities to accurately determine which team belongs in which division? I can only see it turning into an ugly, highly opinionated and subjective mess. For this to work there needs to be a solid set of ground-rules that clearly define the divisions and the whole promotion/relegation process. There's no room for subjectivity or opinions, otherwise this whole community will be a dumpster fire with constant arguing.

[Pelle3000]

"I sent 2 messages i spent 15 minutes each at tops to tell them that the entire concept is stupid because i got annoyed at the message they sent Svamp, not because i wanted to start a shit flinging contest in a thread."

Soooo... yeah. Have fun in division 3

[Foppatofflan]

"My problem isn't whether a specific team that i'm not even on will get fucked over by this, it's, like its pretty clearly says in my message"

 

"And i clearly said that i wasn't on Unknown and are arguing of the point of someone that will most likely not be affected by it"

 

And yet 4-5 people are about it talking like Connor and i are in Unknown. Reading too hard, pls send help. I wonder if pot will cure that too. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Foppatofflan

[J-Foppa]

1 hour ago, Foppatofflan said:

"My problem isn't whether a specific team that i'm not even on will get fucked over by this, it's, like its pretty clearly says in my message"

 

"And i clearly said that i wasn't on Unknown and are arguing of the point of someone that will most likely not be affected by it"

 

And yet 4-5 people are about it talking like Connor and i are in Unknown. Reading too hard, pls send help. I wonder if pot will cure that too. 

So if you are not in Unknown and Connor is not in Unknown and Anrh is not in Unknown and Terasniska is not in Unknown then this discussion is really about whether or not Svamp should play in division 1 or 3?

I vote for 3! Is there a poll?

[Foppatofflan]

16 minutes ago, Egyptologen said:

So if you are not in Unknown and Connor is not in Unknown and Anrh is not in Unknown and Terasniska is not in Unknown then this discussion is really about whether or not Svamp should play in division 1 or 3?

I vote for 3! Is there a poll?

Considering that the entire Synergy roster probably has asked to join Unknown at one point or another im sure he will manage to fill those positions up somehow. 

[Dominointi]

1. I would like to see Team Finland vs Team Sweden vs Team Europe.

    12 players for each team, 2 different lineups.

    1st lineup could be voted in here and 2nd is chosen by nhlgamer stuff.

2. Make interviews.

    So many people are totally unknown to me. Would be nice to read or listen those.

    I actually like some stuff Sika& Rv are doing so keep it up!

3. I dont like the fact that I have to put stream up manually everytime.

    Its not a big thing to fix and it helps your customers.

4. Dont punish people for quiting in long tourney.

    It just makes no sense. You dont want less people playing on your site.

    If divisions are created make them start from the bottom. Thats enough for punishment you dont have to give bans etc.

5. If people want to create new teams just make them earn their spot in the league.

    For example if they want to play in 1st division they have to play against team which is placed 10-16 or chosen by nhlgamer etc.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Dominointi

[imosi]

2 hours ago, Dominointi said:

4. Dont punish people for quiting in long tourney.

    If divisions are created make them start from the bottom. Thats enough for punishment you dont have to give bans etc.

Good idea! But who is the one to tell, does the whole team get this "punishment" or just the captain?

[Dominointi]

10 minutes ago, imosi said:

Good idea! But who is the one to tell, does the whole team get this "punishment" or just the captain?

There are always some people who are trying to circumvent the rules. Thats why its really hard to make simple rule for quiting but personally I would handle situations like this case by case (like they do now I guess).

Im sure that there would be less quiting if the groupstage would be shorter. People also need to play against their own level opponents.

[imosi]

34 minutes ago, Dominointi said:

There are always some people who are trying to circumvent the rules. Thats why its really hard to make simple rule for quiting but personally I would handle situations like this case by case (like they do now I guess).

Im sure that there would be less quiting if the groupstage would be shorter. People also need to play against their own level opponents.

5. Bring us wild cards! For an example, if there's 30 teams in ECL, 15 per group, lets have wild card spots. Six best teams go straight to the playoffs, 7th-10th teams battle for remaining two playoff-spots. Teams that dont make playoffs (11-15th placed teams in both groups), would battle in elimination round for their next seasons ECL ticket. Five losers from these five pairs get eliminated. 

This is a really good idea from @vSilenttio, but i would make the 1st division ( "ECL") 2 groups with 16 teams in each. 

I also suggest that two teams from each group gets relegated and 4 teams from the 2nd division would be promoted to ECL. 

And because we just have to start from somewhere maybe the teams reaching the playoffs now have a spot in the ECL 4.

Wildcard spots and the fight for the ECL group spots could keep up the motivation for all the teams.

Edited December 2, 2016 by imosi

[Pelle3000]

9 hours ago, Foppatofflan said:

Considering that the entire Synergy roster probably has asked to join Unknown at one point or another im sure he will manage to fill those positions up somehow. 

Im sure svump is balls deep with both Craig and norpe ATM (pun intended). 

But honestly, unknown isnt the big mystery you want it to be. Actually I think a lot of ppl are just tired hearing about it. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're are playing all these 10-0 games this season to get divisions? Lots of really boring hours. And then the holy unknown should dismantle 2-3 teams and get a freepass to  div 1? Yes?

 

[J-Foppa]

1 hour ago, imosi said:

5. Bring us wild cards! For an example, if there's 30 teams in ECL, 15 per group, lets have wild card spots.

I also suggest that two teams from each group gets relegated and 4 teams from the 2nd division would be promoted to ECL. 

The idea is good, except groups and automatic relegation doesnt go well together. There shouldnt be a question of which group you end up in. Even now and previous tournaments without relegation there is always speculation of which group is toughest etc. If we have divisions with several groups then we need some kind of playoff/relegation series.

Personally Id like to see 16 teams in division 1.

30 teams are too many, more than half the teams in this tournament.

[imosi]

1 hour ago, Egyptologen said:

The idea is good, except groups and automatic relegation doesnt go well together. There shouldnt be a question of which group you end up in. Even now and previous tournaments without relegation there is always speculation of which group is toughest etc. If we have divisions with several groups then we need some kind of playoff/relegation series.

Personally Id like to see 16 teams in division 1.

30 teams are too many, more than half the teams in this tournament.

Yeah I thought about that as well. To make it as balanced as possible we would need seedings etc. I really dont envy the staff figuring out the chosen ones 

Edited December 2, 2016 by imosi

[Kenu]

I'm glad to see there's some good discussion going on atm. There's a lot of opinions and points of view on this matter and most importantly, everyone is motivating and reasoning their views. We'll be sharing our plans with you tomorrow and we hope to get some more feedback and thoughts then. Feel free to keep discussing in the mean time, of course.

 

As for the PM sharing case, well, that's not something I respect. I'm glad it resulted in some good discussion, though.

I felt bad for forgetting to get back to iSvamp about his question in regards to the divisions, so I wrote him a rather quick reply in order to briefly explain the different dilemmas that we are facing when putting together our plan for how the divisions should work. The point being that we are aware of his team having a long history and that we try to take all angles into consideration. The main point I was trying to make in the message, was that we're aware of his concerns and that we will be posting about our plans soon and be open for feedback. Apparently I wasn't clear enough in my communication, as what happened next was being sent messages that, A) had a bunch of great content and constructive feedback, but B) sadly a little too much not-so-suddle hints of the staff being idiots.

In my opinion @MartindalexC wrote a very good post in this thread and I agree with him about respect. People can disagree even to a great extent, but still see the other parties point of view and respect the other person and their reasoning behind their views. That doesn't stop the other person feeling like I'm wrong, but it makes a good platform for a healthy discussion.

Then there's people who think it's ok to say "with all due respect, you're an idiot" (not an actual quote). My point being, that their thought process is if you say something kinda nice to start your message, you can just blast away insults afterwards.

I'm always open for feedback and constructive criticism, but verbally attacking the staff will not be tolerated. The cause may be good and the underlying logic for the criticism may be valid, but it does not merit attacking any member of the community, whether a staff member or not.

 

[Billy44205]

In a magical ideal world I would overhaul the power strucuture on this website like this:

1 ) Separate web designers and tournament rule makers. It's not the same tasks at all. One guy may be a link between the 2 but really, there should be more people in both areas and they should stick to their task in order to do them more efficiently / quickly.

2 ) Possibly you may even add people to do the day to day tournament administration (fixing game reports and other such minor things).

3 )  Make it harder to become the owner of a team and give owners more power to influence tournaments by making a board of owners that would be tasked with voting for / against rule changes and basically approving the product given by the rule makers, but voting doesn't have to be limited to that.

4 ) No 2 jobs at the same time. I find it ridiculous that NHLGamer staff can also be team owners.

 

On an unrelated note, I like  points 1, 2 and 4 in Dominointi's post. Do those please.

[iSvamp]

On 2016-12-02 at 0:06 PM, Pelle3000 said:

Im sure svump is balls deep with both Craig and norpe ATM (pun intended). 

But honestly, unknown isnt the big mystery you want it to be. Actually I think a lot of ppl are just tired hearing about it. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're are playing all these 10-0 games this season to get divisions? Lots of really boring hours. And then the holy unknown should dismantle 2-3 teams and get a freepass to  div 1? Yes?

 

"But honestly, unknown isnt the big mystery you want it to be. Actually I think a lot of ppl are just tired hearing about it. "
Haha butthurt! 3 years, and you're still angry coz I got u kicked from Laser. Sorry for that. Im a bad person. But as long as you and IKEAbabar get's triggered, im fine. 

Craig and Norpe u say? Good players, But... I liked your brother too. He is good, and he was funny. He had a lot of interesting things to say, about "everything"..

As Foppa said - If I say "yes" to all the players from your quarterfinalclub that has asked to join us during the last 2 years, would you probably be the only "good" player left in that club, and that would not be a club for a tournament in div1.. Would u hate me even more if I do that? If so, let's go. 

Pelle3000 and IKEAbabar - Le Carousell, spring 2017. Good luck mates. Cheers?

Kram

______

And nope, Foppa and connor isn't playing in Unknown. Sadly. But 10 others will. But "Who?"..

 

_______

And sorry for the offtopic blaha. 

 

[iSvamp]

On 2016-12-02 at 0:06 PM, Pelle3000 said:

Im sure svump is balls deep with both Craig and norpe ATM (pun intended). 

But honestly, unknown isnt the big mystery you want it to be. Actually I think a lot of ppl are just tired hearing about it. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're are playing all these 10-0 games this season to get divisions? Lots of really boring hours. And then the holy unknown should dismantle 2-3 teams and get a freepass to  div 1? Yes?

 

"But honestly, unknown isnt the big mystery you want it to be. Actually I think a lot of ppl are just tired hearing about it. "
Haha butthurt! 3 years, and you're still angry coz I got u kicked from Laser. Sorry for that. Im a bad person. But as long as you and IKEAbabar get's triggered, im fine. 

Craig and Norpe u say? Good players, But... I liked your brother too. He is good, and he was funny. He had a lot of interesting things to say, about "everything"..

As Foppa said - If I say "yes" to all the players from your quarterfinalclub that has asked to join us during the last 2 years, would you probably be the only "good" player left in that club, and that would not be a club for a tournament in div1.. Would u hate me even more if I do that? If so, let's go. 

Pelle3000 and IKEAbabar - Le Carousell, spring 2017. Good luck mates. Cheers?

Kram

______

And nope, Foppa and connor isn't playing in Unknown. Sadly. But 10 others will. But "Who?"..

 

_______

And sorry for the offtopic blaha. 


And to Elefanten, fyi. 

Anrh17
Kev
Terasniska
Fillson
Svamp
Ranta
Mr.x
Mr.x
Mr.x

So far. 



 

[J-Foppa]

43 minutes ago, iSvamp said:

44 minutes ago, iSvamp said:

As Foppa said - If I say "yes" to all the players from your quarterfinalclub that has asked to join us during the last 2 years, would you probably be the only "good" player left in that club, and that would not be a club for a tournament in div1.. Would u hate me even more if I do that? If so, let's go

And to Elefanten, fyi. 

Anrh17
Kev
Terasniska
Fillson
Svamp
Ranta
Mr.x
Mr.x
Mr.x

So far. 



 

Thank you Svamp for letting us keep Synergy. I wasn't even aware we were playing through your good will.

Ofc Unknown should play in div 1. With 3 Mr X, I heard he is the best.


 

[Pelle3000]

1 hour ago, iSvamp said:

Haha butthurt! 3 years, and you're still angry coz I got u kicked from Laser. Sorry for that. Im a bad person. But as long as you and IKEAbabar get's triggered, im fine. 

No, you asked me to join your team. I did, u fucked me over, and Laser did not want me back. Yes that pissed me of cause it hurt good relations i had with players in that team.

 

1 hour ago, iSvamp said:

As Foppa said - If I say "yes" to all the players from your quarterfinalclub that has asked to join us during the last 2 years, would you probably be the only "good" player left in that club,And are you drunk right now? and that would not be a club for a tournament in div1.. Would u hate me even more if I do that? If so, let's go. 

Who asked u?

 

1 hour ago, iSvamp said:

Craig and Norpe u say? Good players, But... I liked your brother too. He is good, and he was funny. He had a lot of interesting things to say, about "everything"..

Gl with that.

Why do you feel pride in manipulating and lying? Just quit the game for the fifth time. 

[Jesus]

Lol

About the divisions. Two divisions, not three. More divisions than two will kill this community and destroy the possibility of new teams forming. Not the way to go!

 

 

[vSilenttio]

55 minutes ago, Jesus said:

Lol

About the divisions. Two divisions, not three. More divisions than two will kill this community and destroy the possibility of new teams forming. Not the way to go!

 

 

30 in Div1 (ECL) might not be quite competetive enough as there would still be too big skill diffeferences between top and "ok" teams. And if there was 16 in Div1, and all the rest in Div2, it would be the same but in Div2 that time and I think with three divisions, the game will be more fun for everybody.

I like the idea that teams should play against their own level teams - for an example: "Elite team" playing against "possible quitter team" or just literally "amateur team" is not fun or competetive to any team. And lets be honest here - we can divide our community's skill easily to three divisions by just looking at our teams right now. We have top teams, midtable teams and teams that take it in the ass even from midtable teams. Just being realistic and saying it like this so everyone here understands what's the point of Divisions.

Personally I think that NHLGamer will take huge steps for NHL-scene with their new, fixed Division-system.

Ask anyone who seriously respects the competetiviness big time, and meanwhile also looks to the future - not just next season. 

Edited December 5, 2016 by vSilenttio
end

[Billy44205]

Yeah yeah yeah... Can we go back to Unknown vs Synergy please? Thx

[Jesus]

42 minutes ago, vSilenttio said:

30 in Div1 (ECL) might not be quite competetive enough as there would still be too big skill diffeferences between top and "ok" teams. And if there was 16 in Div1, and all the rest in Div2, it would be the same but in Div2 that time and I think with three divisions, the game will be more fun for everybody.

I like the idea that teams should play against their own level teams - for an example: "Elite team" playing against "possible quitter team" or just literally "amateur team" is not fun or competetive to any team. And lets be honest here - we can divide our community's skill easily to three divisions by just looking at our teams right now. We have top teams, midtable teams and teams that take it in the ass even from midtable teams. Just being realistic and saying it like this so everyone here understands what's the point of Divisions.

Personally I think that NHLGamer will take huge steps for NHL-scene with their new, fixed Division-system.

Ask anyone who seriously respects the competetiviness big time, and meanwhile also looks to the future - not just next season. 

It will still be competetive gaming whether it is 16, 20 or 30 teams in div 1.  Bad teams will still take it in the butt, no matter the current division. The downside for shit teams placed in divison 3 is the fact that they will never be able to attract good players to their team hence they will never become better. Quite the opposite all good or ok players in bad teams will leave for teams in higher division leaving bad teams at the bottom for ever. As a consequence they will stop playing. Quick question. Do bad teams only wanna play against other bad teams? Do we know that?

 

Depending on how Kenu and CO decides to formate this, new teams (for the most times teams consisting of veteran players) will also kill the competition in div 3, 4 or 5 if they have to go through the bottom division. What is the point?

We also have to look at reality here and design the tournament format after that fact. Most teams are ok teams. If you look at this years tournament, there is maybe 4-5 teams that perhaps could have more fun in their own league. But the absolute majority will manage to compete in a midlevel-league.

A suggestion could be. 20 teams in div 1 and 30-40+ teams in div 2 divided into two groups. To me, its much better to expand the existing two divisions based on number of teams, rather than the number of divisons.

More than two divisions punish too many ok teams. It also slows down the process of expanding the league in number of activity and it achieves nothing. Believe me!

 

 

 

[Jesus]

I see a very one-sided debate here btw, with only top level teams expressing their feelings. Fact of the matter is. Your not the problem. You will play no matter what!

2/3 of the community are okay teams. We have to find the best solution for that group. If not, expect the future tournaments in this game series to be played on some obscure russian forum with 10 participants. Is that what you want?

No, that is not what we want.

[vSilenttio]

So lets have two big divisions, just because of midtable teams wouldn't create their own league and have bigger chance to win real (easier) championship? Nah, sounds boring.

This is the way to make NHL-gaming (EASHL) go next level. To make this matter, to make this more competetive and real what it has never been before. Why should we basically do the same stuff over and over again - and get nowhere with it. I guess we know what happened to Consoleblogspothockey?

No more conference bs - you know, as we split the one big league to half and have zero chance to play ECL against other elite or good midtable teams. Making Divisions work is not easy. It's not only making two/three different groups of teams and let them play between eachother.

What you guys scare in playing more big games? Isn't it the point of eSports? To play as competetive as we can.

I'm not gonna carry on with this conversation as I have already told what I want and wish from NHLGamer now and in the future. Just my opinions, and hopefully Gamer's as well.

We'll see it tonight. 

Edited December 5, 2016 by vSilenttio

[Jesus]

10 minutes ago, vSilenttio said:

So lets have two big divisions, just because of midtable teams wouldn't create their own league and have bigger chance to win real (easier) championship? Nah, sounds boring.

This is the way to make NHL-gaming (EASHL) go next level. To make this matter, to make this more competetive and real what it has never been before. Why should we basically do the same stuff over and over again - and get nowhere with it. I guess we know what happened to Consoleblogspothockey?

No more conference bs - you know, as we split the one big league to half and have zero chance to play ECL against other elite teams. Making Divisions work is not easy. It's not only making two/three different groups of teams and let them play between eachother.

What you guys scare in playing more big games? Isn't it the point of eSports? To play as competetive as we can.

I'm not gonna carry on with this conversation as I have already told what I want and wish from NHLGamer now and in the future. Just my opinions, and hopefully Gamer's as well.

We'll see it tonight. 

You will still be able to compete against elite teams in the highest division. Your chasing something that isn't there. Things don't get more competetive and real only because we have 3-4 divisions instead of 2 divisions. In fact, you make things less exciting. There is nothing exciting about reaching division 2 or dropping out from div 2. You will only get worse teams in the bottom and less activity. .

In fact, you kill competition. The only point with divisions is the gap between div 1 and 2. That we can try and we will! But hopefully, I hope the staff don't take it further than that since it will only hurt the community BIG TIME!

Also. You act like this tournament is a fiasco. In a way it is, but in terms of activity and number of good teams it's a success. Much to be done to better this community. Divisions might be one thing, but definitely not the most urgent or vital change.