ECL Elite point system.

[hooneli]

Hello fellow gamers,

I made comeback recently to the 6vs6 scene and I've been having hard time accepting the current point system in our league. I think it's the worst point system you can have. I'm sure some of you must have been wondering the same.

So let's say we have 2 games and both of those games go to overtime. For example both teams will win 1 of those games. They receive 3points per team. That's 6 points overall. If we compare that to some other team winning 2 games without OT and receiving 4 points there are 2 bonus points given. Where those 2 points magically appeared for the first pairing? They get rewarded going to OT and having a one bonus game win worth of points shared because of that and I think that's a lot.

So I think either of these 2 options would be better than what we currently have:

1: Winner gets 2 points loser 0 (OT or not).

2: 3 points are shared each game (no magically appearing bonus points ever). 60min win = 3p, loss 0p. Overtime win = 2p, overtime loss 1p.

I'm not sure if you already had a discussion about this because I've been away from the scene about 2-3 years. Let me know if so. What do you guys think about this, I want to hear your opinion. Am I overreacting and the current point system is fine for everyone or should there be re-evaluation of this?

[FlyerKungen]

 

There's some old topic we had discussion about it earlier this year. Just FYI.

[hooneli]

4 minuuttia sitten, FlyerKungen kirjoitti:

 

There's some old topic we had discussion about it earlier this year. Just FYI.

Thank you. I'll read this. My only problem with the current system is that it motivates you to go to OT. It's not the most fair system even if it's the same for everyone.

[tbnantti]

I calculated last season's regular season standings with the 3-2-1-0 system back when this was last discussed.

1. LHC 75
2. JYP 74
3. HAVU 74
4. hREDS 57
5. UB 51
6. Brayce 47
7. Roots 47
8. FBK 39
9. Vesa 38
10. KOVA 37
11. Ghetto 35
12. SJ 34
13. Checkmate 33
14. Luleå 30
15. Gotham 29
16. AF 20

If you compare the standings to the actual ECL10 standings, you can see that not a whole lot changed. The same 8 teams would have made the playoffs and the same teams would have occupied the relegation spots. The only anomaly in the standings is Checkmate, who actually finished 9th with 9 wins in OT out of their 13 wins.

I'm sure you could replicate these results with the previous seasons as well, so it doesn't really make a difference.

[FlyerKungen]

10 minuuttia sitten, hooneli kirjoitti:

Thank you. I'll read this. My only problem with the current system is that it motivates you to go to OT. It's not the most fair system even if it's the same for everyone.

For sure. I'm not sure tho if there's fair system for this "super skilled and super competitive" NHL game. There's pros and cons in every one of them. For me the ENCE EKI's first message in the old topic has still value. Win is win and the games are very short. Thats why I still support the current system. But anyhow, only Elite players and teams should be able to make decisions what happens in Elite. Because of license, prizepool, etc. Pro/Lite/Neo sure can do whatever they want imo, but you need separate polls then. Public poll inlcuding every skill level doesn't have so much value for me in this kind of case.

Edited December 17, 2020 by FlyerKungen

[hooneli]

4 minuuttia sitten, tbnantti kirjoitti:

I calculated last season's regular season standings with the 3-2-1-0 system back when this was last discussed.

1. LHC 75
2. JYP 74
3. HAVU 74
4. hREDS 57
5. UB 51
6. Brayce 47
7. Roots 47
8. FBK 39
9. Vesa 38
10. KOVA 37
11. Ghetto 35
12. SJ 34
13. Checkmate 33
14. Luleå 30
15. Gotham 29
16. AF 20

If you compare the standings to the actual ECL10 standings, you can see that not a whole lot changed. The same 8 teams would have made the playoffs and the same teams would have occupied the relegation spots. The only anomaly in the standings is Checkmate, who actually finished 9th with 9 wins in OT out of their 13 wins.

I'm sure you could replicate these results with the previous seasons as well, so it doesn't really make a difference.

That's good to know, thank you for this! Current system is kinda good. It's same for everyone for sure but it could be used for matchfixing. For example last rounds of ECL regular season and none would be able to prove it.

3 minuuttia sitten, FlyerKungen kirjoitti:

For sure. I'm not sure tho if there's fair system for this "super skilled and super competitive" NHL game. There's pros and cons in every one of them. For me the ENCE EKI's first message in the old topic has still value. Win is win and the games are very short. Thats why I still support the current system. But anyhow, only Elite players and teams should be able to make decisions what happens in Elite. Because of license, prizepool, etc. Pro/Lite/Neo sure can do whatever they want imo, but you need separate polls then. Public poll inlcuding every skill level doesn't have so much value for me in this kind of case.

I agree everything you said. I think Elite teams should have their own vote for this (if there's a will). Maybe after this ECL. I just personally don't like seeing any bonus points shared. I think it's more fair to share same amount of points each game than this.

[tbnantti]

1 minute ago, hooneli said:

That's good to know, thank you for this! Current system is kinda good. It's same for everyone for sure but it could be used for matchfixing. For example last rounds of ECL regular season and none would be able to prove it.

Matchfixing? If some teams want to fix a match it doesn't matter what system is used.

If you're referring to the fact that both teams would be content with securing 1p to clinch a playoff spot or whatever, both the 2-1-0 and 3-2-1-0 allow that and it's fairly common in pro sports -> teams go into the match with a more defensive mindset.

I think suggesting someone will fix a match is a bit farfetched.

[hooneli]

1 minuutti sitten, tbnantti kirjoitti:

Matchfixing? If some teams want to fix a match it doesn't matter what system is used.

If you're referring to the fact that both teams would be content with securing 1p to clinch a playoff spot or whatever, both the 2-1-0 and 3-2-1-0 allow that and it's fairly common in pro sports -> teams go into the match with a more defensive mindset.

I think suggesting someone will fix a match is a bit farfetched.

True true. I'm not suggesting it by any means but thinking current system makes it just a bit more viable.

[Jnmxxx]

4 minuuttia sitten, FlyerKungen kirjoitti:

For sure. I'm not sure tho if there's fair system for this "super skilled and super competitive" NHL game. There's pros and cons in every one of them. For me the ENCE EKI's first message in the old topic has still value. Win is win and the games are very short. Thats why I still support the current system. But anyhow, only Elite players and teams should be able to make decisions what happens in Elite. Because of license, prizepool, etc. Pro/Lite/Neo sure can do whatever they want imo, but you need separate polls then. This kind of public poll inlcuding every skill level doesn't have so much value for me in this kind of case.

 But even in elite, teams and players come and go as the years go by. Do you want to vote for each season with new players?

 

And for the topic, i agree with the original poster that current point system is worst of them all. Even still its not a big deal and difference is slim, as @tbnantti has calculated.

[hooneli]

9 minuuttia sitten, Jnmxxx kirjoitti:

 But even in elite, teams and players come and go as the years go by. Do you want to vote for each season with new players?

 

And for the topic, i agree with the original poster that current point system is worst of them all. Even still its not a big deal and difference is slim, as @tbnantti has calculated.

This is exactly what I'm trying to say here. The current system is fine by all means, but it's the worst of those 3 because it creates an unnecessary reward system for this game. I mean why are we using the worst system of all 3 if there are more fair systems to use?

Edit:

I think you can see this current system with at least 3 perspectives:

Top Elite teams: I don't care, win is a win and it doesn't ''touch'' us. We will still be top team.

Bottom Elite teams: This is good for us! If we get to OT as many times as possible and get a few wins we will be able to make playoffs!

Others: These guys opinions will vary but I think they can look this point system kinda more ''all-around''.

And don't take this personally, I think in both groups elite and bottom there are people who think ''all-around'' too, this is just an exaggeration for this example.

Edited December 17, 2020 by hooneli

[Lauri]

Could go away from real hockey and just use the format that is used mostly in esports, matches are bo3 and only wins count in regular season. 

[hooneli]

16 minuuttia sitten, Lauri kirjoitti:

Could go away from real hockey and just use the format that is used mostly in esports, matches are bo3 and only wins count in regular season. 

Well that's our playoff system.

[Lauri]

1 minute ago, hooneli said:

Well that's our playoff system.

If matches on playoffs are bo 5 or bo 7, there is a lot of a difference, and even if it weren't I don't see why it still wouldn't be viable

[hooneli]

8 minuuttia sitten, Lauri kirjoitti:

If matches on playoffs are bo 5 or bo 7, there is a lot of a difference, and even if it weren't I don't see why it still wouldn't be viable

Yeah I'm not against it at all. I just think regular season point system is good for regular season and bo X format is good for playoffs. I don't care what point system we use, I just want it to be the most fair possible. Current system is not.

Edit: and why? Let's say we have a team that goes in OT for every game that they play. 30*3=90 points shared. Versus a team who don't go to OT at all, 30*2=60 points shared. Of course this is a stupid example but still a possibility. Points shared difference is 30. For example in 3-2-1-0 system the points shared difference would be 0.

Edited December 17, 2020 by hooneli

[Lauri]

4 minutes ago, hooneli said:

Yeah I'm not against it at all. I just think regular season point system is good for regular season and bo X format is good for playoffs. I don't care what point system we use, I just want it to be the most fair possible. Current system is not.

If you move away from hockey systems you can have a playoff system where there is an lower bracket and upper bracket. And I think that the current system is basically a remnant from systems where your season is a year long and can play only 1 game at a time

Edited December 17, 2020 by Lauri

[ahonaattorii]

The thing that i don't like in current system is that reward of win and loss is same than in losing two games, as long as you lose slow enough(60+ minutes). 

Current system is not unfair, but i just don't like that mentality. It rewards slowing the pace.