Money league

[jtorro-_-]

This topic is interesting and it's time to start talk about this with NHLGamer Staff, including community, teams and players. Ofc, we need different opinions...

We have now played three different versions of EA Sports NHL (16, 17, 18) and six European Champions Leagues, but without any prizes (Summer Cup 2 included some). Outside community (Discord, Playstation Party Chat, Private Chats...) we have heard most competitive players talking about this. Do we have enough motivation anymore to play Leagues without any prizes? Why do we play? Just for fun? Beacuse of glory and reputation? But we want more! If NHLGamer can't offer to us something bigger in future, is there any other site who can do that? Yes there is, outside EU, in NA, for example. NHLGamer has always been great site, offering differentservices for different kind of players. Now there is a lots of players who are asking for new services and what if NHLGamer doesn't meet their customer base with this? Exactly, players are leaving to the other site with better services. It's time to listen player base once again and try to improve and grow-up together! In NA we have seen many different 6v6 Leagues with prizes and feedback has beengreat, at least what we have heard. So why this kind of thing would not work in Europe too? We have already waited too long for this so it's time to start discussion.

What everyone (NHLGamer Staff) is waiting for? Maybe some outsider coming and paying whole thing? Or is there enough teams (players) who are ready to pay to participate? Buy-In per Team can be anything between 10€ to 200€. It's true most competitive 6v6 players are coming from Elite Top Teams. Or are they? That's why we need different opinions from Elite, Pro and Lite. What do you guys think? Teams like Carlsberg HC, Northern Ascendancy, Written In The Stars, Dynasty, Sjukstugan, SJK eSports, Northern Stars, Filadelphia, Monarchs, others? We know there is players who wants this to happen. There is also players who are not interested about this "having money or prizes" thing but this is not for you then.

Lots of money is moving in 1v1 leagues and now we need money to 6v6 also! NHLGamer, where we are at the moment? Where we are going? With this topic we wanna start discussion and hear different opinions from other players! One thing is sure, moneyleague (or whatever you wanna call it) will happen in NHL 19. If it's not here, then it's time to move on and search for new community!

Feel free to say anything what comes into your mind. We know this post is kind of "straight-talking" but this is one of the things, what this community needs! Cheers.

[Eki]

Great post. Straight facts 💸🔥

[ahonaattorii]

Great post indeed!! If we think how things are rolling in real world these days everything costs €€€$$$. If you want to play virtual hockey manager games like Liigapörssi you have to pay something. Liigapörssi payments start from about 20€ / year / player. That amount with this community size means something like 80 000€/year. With this kind of money you could pay some prizes and maybe allso develope community.

[jumalpeku]

SJK boys told me there is money league coming next autumn. Maybe they could tell us more info.. 😏

[pentsaa]

I think it should be more about getting sponsors to provide prizes for the tournaments,  same we had in last Summer Cup. In my opinion iff we now implemented a buy-in in order to be able to play, we would probably see some decrease in the number of teams attending the tournaments. And I don't think that's a good thing at this point, when the community is still seeing fast growth.

As @jtorro1233 said, there is a big number of players who do not want to pay anymore than the price of the game itself. And consequently, in my opinion there are still big skill caps inside Lite, Pro and Elite,  which could to some extent decrease the motivation of "worse" teams to attend tournaments if they needed to pay for it.

But altogether very nice idea! And I too think that there should be some movement towards developing the leagues to have some prize system but it's hard to tell which is the best one in this case. Maybe we can take some examples from other esports games, where these kind of prize systems have already been implemented.

- pentsaa

[PleeMaker]

No, we don't have motivation anymore. Bring the 💸💸💸💸💸

[Kattenj]

Yeah moneyleague legooo🤑

[l-Furyan-l]

Good topic @jtorro1233. Throwing cheap shots and making thinly veiled threats is not the best way to get your point across, but discussion is never a bad thing.

More info should be coming but here is a little nugget of information NHLGamer actually posted on March 15 that I am not sure everyone saw. It was in the News story "NHLGamer, esports & You":

 

Quote

"One discussed topic around the community lately has been the concept of buy-in tournaments, where the teams pay a certain amount to enter a tournament in hopes to get their hands on a bigger prize pool. We will be talking a lot more about this in the near future, but for the time being, let us at least confirm to you today, that this concept is definitely on our road map and you will be able to participate in these kinds of tournaments right here at NHLGamer. "

 

[jouni29]

Interesting idea. Glory and reputation are good prizes of course, but adding money would make it more interesting. I think it would add motivation for everyone, those who grind a ton and those who play more casually - making it a more serious thing.

Personally I'd prefer a laddered type of payment system based on the playing level, meaning that Elite could have somewhere around 100€ buy-in for team, Pro 40€ and Lite 15€. With those amounts it would be Elite 1600€, Pro 1200€ and Lite 900€ based on ECL 6's team amount in each division. This could be split something like 60% for winner, 30% for second place and 10% to NHLGamer. That way we would have prizes to play for, and some money to improve this community and for keeping things going on.
Should there also be a division without payments? Yes. That brings more new players and teams to compete together which is never a bad thing.

Also taking notes on summer cup, being a true amateur in this game compared to those guys who play a lot, I'd like to see summer cup being a stepping board for everyone where you can introduce yourself to new people and play with them having a blast and learning new things. If there are prizes included in summer cup, the best players are going to play the games hence dropping the idea of networking and having a blast - which I truely believe should be summer cup's purpose.


Just my quick two cents, I'll show myself out 🙈

[gzell60]

Hey @jtorro1233,

I appreciate the fact you are that passionate about this. Below are some personal remarks from my side.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb jtorro1233:

Do we have enough motivation anymore to play Leagues without any prizes? Why do we play? Just for fun? Beacuse of glory and reputation? But we want more!

I am fairly confident everyone wants more than that. However playing for glory and reputation, and being dedicated to what we are doing here at NHLGamer, has already been opening the first few doors to something bigger. You already mentioned the Webhallen partnership, and we are also looking to do some more fancy stuff regarding eSM (we will we dropping a couple of announcements about that).

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb jtorro1233:

In NA we have seen many different 6v6 Leagues with prizes and feedback has beengreat, at least what we have heard. So why this kind of thing would not work in Europe too?

It absolutely works in Europe as well. Essentially, there are two ways to get money involved:

1) "Beer league" style: Have players drop a buy-in fee and distribute the pool to the winners, which will ultimately prevent new players and teams from signing up, creating a locked circle just to please a small group of 2-3 top tier teams. That's the easy solution you would choose, and it comes with a ridiculous amount of drawbacks. In my opinion, it is not an option for ECL - our prime league - but it is something to be considered for other occasions!

2) "Professional league" style: Thanks to players' dedication, we are seeing hundreds of returning viewers on NHLGamerTwitch and teams' Twitch channels, we have seen a partnership with one of Europe's biggest retail brands, we have seen eSM live events hosted by NHLGamer. External brands love visibility, and by now we have created a platform that offers plenty of it, generating lots of interest from outside. This is the long term goal we have been working towards for years, and I also think the time is right for NHL 19. We're shooting for partners that we believe fit the NHLGamer brand best on our way to becoming a professional league - not some shady electronics store selling no-name chinese products or some apparel brand that has already disappeared by now. We have a very clear strategy in mind to giving you - the players - what you are looking for, and we're not going to be distracted by any outsiders. Me and especially @Kenu have been putting in hundreds of hours of work into making ECL become a professional league soon, because we love what we are doing and believe we are able to make it come to life.

With 2) I believe I also answered some more questions people may have, regarding where we are and what we are heading towards.

Please keep this discussion going though everyone. We would certainly love to hear about your opinions, especially having different perspectives from Elite/Pro/Lite players could deliver some essential knowledge. Will keep watching this thread  

[vSilenttio]

Good speech, Joel. 🤑

In my eyes, there's one thing what people are not even mentioning in these threads where we talk about future, compare EASHL 6vs6 gaming to Versus or to totally different games, mostly on different platform (PC). And that thing is kind of the whole point of what we are doing right now when we go out there on the ice every night, no matter if it's EASHL, ECL, versus-mode, Summer Cup or smaller tournaments/leagues.

We are the pioneers.

And yes, nobody needs to tell me that NHL's 6vs6 has been a thing for almost 10 years now. But it's been very, very small thing almost whole time in that 10 year period when you compare it to any other competetive game where the money is/or has been for years now. Then again while the EASHL scene has been here for about 10 years, the NHLGamer is what, three years old? There's going to be 4500 registered members this summer and the actual growth of members on this site has been huge when you think about times before NHLGamer. It's all about doing right things; get the players & teams, get reliable and enough good Staff members to make sure it all works 24/7, get different leagues going and then repeat/keep it going all the time week after week. And all this has worked decently for free so far, and when you think about that, the result is pretty good.

Personally I think that NHL19 will be the biggest NHL game competetively we have ever seen, and that the NHLGamer is on the doorstep this summer/autumn where you really have to think that do you want to be the new leading NHL gaming site in the world or just another gaming site what people can use mostly for fun gaming. 

There's still guys around who played the first european competetive 6vs6 leagues in first game where it was possible to do that. I've been around myself since 2011. Still haven't lost faith on this scene especially after NHLGamer stepped in and I hope that the "new kids" and people who started playing inside the last 2-3 years would have that same faith with me. Good things will happen when you work, believe and show support. Also, having fun would be nice 'cause that's what the whole gaming is about after all. NHL19 will be huge for us - it must be.

I think (not sure though) that the Rome wasn't build in a week either. Think about games like Counter Strike and Dota etc. which have millions players daily. For an example, and if I remember correctly, the NHL17 sold around 1 million copies around the world while FIFA17 sold around 20 million copies. The difference.

Also keep spreading the word, it never hurts. Be proud of what you're doing every night. Keep up the good work everyone! 

[MartindalexC]

6 minutes ago, vSilenttio said:

...

I think (not sure though) that the Rome wasn't build in a week either. Think about games like Counter Strike and Dota etc. which have millions players daily.

Also helps those games have always had some semblance of balance, nhl though? Well about that... 

[vSilenttio]

33 minuuttia sitten, MartindalexC kirjoitti:

Also helps those games have always had some semblance of balance, nhl though? Well about that... 

Damn true. But Rammer has said there's no momentum or such things in NHL (while there's highlights in the game which show momentum changing stuff like fights etc). So Rammer lies.

Although while whining about these things, NHL game is based on real life sport where things like luck and bounces are everyday stuff. Hockey game wont work if you change the actual point of it and make it some sort of card game. Crosschecks, elbowings and hookings are shit though.

Edited April 26, 2018 by vSilenttio

[MartindalexC]

23 minutes ago, vSilenttio said:

Damn true. But Rammer has said there's no momentum or such things in NHL (while there's highlights in the game which show momentum changing stuff like fights etc). So Rammer lies.

Although while whining about these things, NHL game is based on real life sport where things like luck and bounces are everyday stuff. Hockey game wont work if you change the actual point of it and make it some sort of card game. Crosschecks and hookings are shit though.

I'm more referring to the fact that the powerforward is essentially god incarnate and is better than practically all builds in every situation bar a very select few. Plus all the other shit about pings being borked, no real way to actually see the connection quality of the server (choke), connection changing on a game by game basis for no discernible reason et cetera... 

The game doesn't have to be a 100% reflection of skill, most legit esports have an element of rng (cs:go and jumping / moving inaccuracy) and that's perfectly fine so long as you the player remain as the main 'difference' maker. Do we have that currently in nhl? I'd argue no honestly. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by MartindalexC

[KingOfApes_]

Im pretty sure that NHLGAMER cant give us that kinda service because its finnish. We have this ridiculous Veikkaus Oy what will make sure that this wont ever happen:(

[Tauri]

The worst thing with NHL is that you have to buy a whole new game every year. Fifa can work like that, footboll is big everywhere, But NHL...

Edited April 26, 2018 by Tauri

[OGjahajaha]

20 minuuttia sitten, Tuukka.R kirjoitti:

Im pretty sure that NHLGAMER cant give us that kinda service because its finnish. We have this ridiculous Veikkaus Oy what will make sure that this wont ever happen:(

Currently RAY withholds the right for a monopoly on gambling and casino operations in Finland, yes. However, a money tournament on NHLGamer wouldn't fall into the same category. I agree with your views about Veikkaus but they probably won't limit the possibilities of NHLGamer. Then again, I don't know two shits about legislation so don't trust me blindly 😅

On another note, man, am I excited to see what we can do in the near future! There's a number of challenges involved in organising a legit and sustainable money league, but I'm all on board with what @gzell60 stated above. NHLGamer has a nice vision and with the recent growth we're only at the start of it all. Good job by @jtorro1233 to spark some discussion here on the forums about this.

[FlyerKungen]

Great post my Mr. non-white! I agree with everything. 😉

 

6 tuntia sitten, pentsaa kirjoitti:

I think it should be more about getting sponsors to provide prizes for the tournaments,  same we had in last Summer Cup. In my opinion iff we now implemented a buy-in in order to be able to play, we would probably see some decrease in the number of teams attending the tournaments. And I don't think that's a good thing at this point, when the community is still seeing fast growth.

As @jtorro1233 said, there is a big number of players who do not want to pay anymore than the price of the game itself. And consequently, in my opinion there are still big skill caps inside Lite, Pro and Elite,  which could to some extent decrease the motivation of "worse" teams to attend tournaments if they needed to pay for it.

That's why NHLGamer need to offer both. What else that can be? We need League without a money (or those current divisions) and then also we need (want) League with a money. Remember people, idea is not change everything under Buy-Ins, money and stuff. With that kind of thing NHLGamer would only drive people away. So yes I'm pretty sure NHLGamer can offer both in future so we can keep all the current players here and say warm welcome to the new players! In my mind, that's the most ideal thing.

 

5 tuntia sitten, The_Alpha_Furyan kirjoitti:

Throwing cheap shots and making thinly veiled threats is not the best way to get your point across, but discussion is never a bad thing.

It's all about how you read and how you think. Maybe there is a little bit frustration among the Elite players because we have waited for a long time something to happen. So this kind of opening post is only good, imo. Straight talk, no doubt. Nothing against NHLGamer, you guys are doing hard and valued work. It's just... Players who are interested about the money, deserve to know where we are and where we are going at the moment.

 

3 tuntia sitten, gzell60 kirjoitti:

1) "Beer league" style: Have players drop a buy-in fee and distribute the pool to the winners, which will ultimately prevent new players and teams from signing up, creating a locked circle just to please a small group of 2-3 top tier teams. That's the easy solution you would choose, and it comes with a ridiculous amount of drawbacks. In my opinion, it is not an option for ECL - our prime league - but it is something to be considered for other occasions!

2) "Professional league" style: Thanks to players' dedication, we are seeing hundreds of returning viewers on NHLGamerTwitch and teams' Twitch channels, we have seen a partnership with one of Europe's biggest retail brands, we have seen eSM live events hosted by NHLGamer. External brands love visibility, and by now we have created a platform that offers plenty of it, generating lots of interest from outside. This is the long term goal we have been working towards for years, and I also think the time is right for NHL 19. We're shooting for partners that we believe fit the NHLGamer brand best on our way to becoming a professional league - not some shady electronics store selling no-name chinese products or some apparel brand that has already disappeared by now. We have a very clear strategy in mind to giving you - the players - what you are looking for, and we're not going to be distracted by any outsiders. Me and especially @Kenu have been putting in hundreds of hours of work into making ECL become a professional league soon, because we love what we are doing and believe we are able to make it come to life.

Imo, if we are thinking about upcoming autumn and NHL 19, that "Beer league" style is way more better than playing current style ECL without any prizes at the end. If we just can get enough player/teams who are ready to pay to participate, I will take that BeerLeague every time instead of regular ECL without prizes. And as long as there is no that "Professional league" style, there should be at least optional BeerLeague a.k.a Buy-In League alongside of regular ECL. I appreciate your dreams and hard work with Kenu but I'm a player and at the moment my feeling is I just wanna search for 6v6 Moneyleague what to play in NHL 19 and if it's not here, then I will look for other options. And if some people need to leave NHLGamer to play MoneyLeague (it's not what I want), I think those players can come back when this NHLGamer is "Professional League".

I'm very excited and can't wait what NHLGamer will tell us in near future. Interesting summer coming, really interesting...

Edited April 26, 2018 by FlyerKungen

[kApollo]

As a average player who plays and has played NHL a lot every year for some time now, I do not understand the desire to play for money, but I´m going to comment anyways. Lets say the prize pool and system is something like what @jouni29 suggested earlier: Elite could have somewhere around 100€ buy-in for team, Pro 40€ and Lite 15€. With those amounts it would be Elite 1600€, Pro 1200€ and Lite 900€ based on ECL 6's team amount in each division. This could be split something like 60% for winner, 30% for second place and 10% to NHLGamer.

Lets say you were part of the team that just won the elite division, 960 euros for the winning team that is then shared with at least 8 players, 120 euros per player. Play the game and season for what - 2 or 3 months? and the difference between finding motivation to do so and having fun or not having fun and losing motivation is in the best case potentially getting 120 euros into your bank account? Sure, still in the very beginning with the whole thing,so the prize money is going to be ´low´ at least when comparing to some other games,  but I´m willing to bet the next thing the ´playing for money´ community asks is: lets try to find a way to increase the prize pool somehow - never going to be big enough prize pool. I´m having hard time believing there will be 16 Elite level teams that are willing to pay 300,400, 500 etc euros each? Keep going down that road and the Elite is not Elite anymore, just a mercenary league.

Even if a sponsor comes in and hands out the prizes, think about how many players go from team to team now or how many teams is destroyed during one NHL calendar year, what will happen in the future when money is involved? I´m again having hard time believing the level of competition is as high as now - in any of the divisions.

More in general, have you guys ever thought that maybe this game and eashl is not as fun as it used to be? It´s perfectly normal to lose interest on some things that you for example few years ago liked a lot. Don´t you think it´s pretty sad that only way for you to enjoy the game like maybe in the past is to have money involved? But as mentioned, I don´t get the thrill and idea of playing for money and more than likely never will. I play the game for my own entertainment and to have fun, what is fun for me is maybe not fun for you - I get that. If there will be some kind of money prize tournament thingy coming up - great, I hope the users who feel that is absolutely needed in the scene get what they are looking for.

Also liked Jouni29´s comment on the summer league, 100% agree - add prizes into the tournament and the whole idea of getting the community closer to each other goes out of the window.

 

 

[Kenu]

First of all, thank you for opening up this discussion. It's always more productive to have an honest discussion than to make assumptions or go by rumours.

I will do my best to cover my thoughts below and explain why we operate in the way we do. That is not to say that I think we are doing everything 100% correctly and there isn't room for improvement. Strap in and enjoy(?) the ride - wall of text incoming.

 

Perspective

Let me start off by saying that there is a large amount of different perspectives on the topics of how we should approach NHL as an esport, how quickly things have developed and how patient one should be. Our past experiences shape our minds and our ways of thinking and depending on your past, you might think my ideas and views are completely wrong, if they don't resonate with what you believe.

If you know my history, heard my interview on the radio, or read about it in our recent article, you might know that I have been in the NHL gaming scene for roughly 18 years now. I've played hockey games since the 8-bit Nintendo, but what I mean about being in the scene, is that I've been in close contact with a lot of people committed to NHL-gaming lifestyle, seen the way the NHL-series producers have interacted with the community and where feedback has and hasn't been listened to. Why do I bring this up? Certainly not to brag about my age - I would much rather prefer to be a kid again - but to offer some perspective on from where we are building this.

In the 18 years I've been active in the NHL community, this is easily the closest we've been to seeing the NHL video game as an actual esport. But why hasn't it happen before? Is it because people didn't want to? Is it because the people didn't put in the work? In my opinion, no - it's because the time wasn't right. I'm sure more than a few companies threw a bunch of money on a wall, but it didn't quite stick. Against this background, when looking at what NHLGamer has achieved in less than three years,  I can proudly say we (the community) have created something wonderful together, something that can, and will, actually stick. From day one, I have wanted to offer paid leagues, but in my opinion the community wasn't ready for it. Now it is. 

When thinking about how much can be achieved in a set amount of time, one must also think about how much time can actually be allocated to the task. I worked a very demanding job throughout most of the development of NHLGamer and the ECL, so when I would come home from work, I would spend most of my free time - and often the hours I should've used for sleeping - on working on this website. The same thing applies to the other staff members, who I respect and appreciate immensely for helping out after a long day or week. This is also the reason why most people overestimate the amount of work they're able to chip in with. That's why we've seen a big change in staff over the years. It's time consuming and demanding. Roughly a year ago I decided to quit my job in Malta. It was a good job, good pay, but it was getting between my passion and me. So I quit. In order for NHLGamer to be able to operate, I have - for the past few months - been focusing all of my time and energy on giving NHLGamer and the NHL video game a chance as an esport and there's no turning back for me. If I go back to a regular day job, there is no way I can keep doing what I've been doing recently.

Why am I telling you this awfully long story? Because I want you to understand my background and that I really do share the enthusiasm to want to introduce money  to NHLGamer and NHL as an esport just as much as many of you do. I've put my heart and soul into the NHL community for 18 years now and NHL gaming is finally starting to get the recognition it deserves. There is no way we're stopping now.

 

Vision

Max (@gzell60) explained above quite well what we want to achieve. And before I go into that, let me point out that Max and I (and the rest of the team) don't agree about everything. No, it doesn't mean that we argue and fight - it simply means that we have different views on how certain things should go. So we discuss them together, as a team and eventually it forms a product.

Why did I bring this up? Well, for example Max doesn't like the idea of buy-in's as much as I do and I agree with him, that it is easily an approach that creates a closed community and shuts people and teams out. Not everyone wants it. This is why I'm happy to do buy-ins, but it shouldn't be the only thing driving our leagues, as I think it's a quite short-sighted attempt at happiness.

You don't need season previews, interviews, stats, streams or any of that to run a buy-in league. But to produce a product that is interesting and approachable to a crowd that isn't necessarily even playing the game themselves - that's where content and the love that we have for the ECL comes in handy. We don't have to fake it, we don't have to do magic tricks. We do however, have to work hard and I know we have in the recent months.

We are extremely proud to have signed a two year contract on the Finnish Championship license - called eSM - for NHL and FIFA. We just announced it tonight and you can read our story here:

 

This is an amazing thing for our community and our plans to keep developing the sport and teaching the world about 6vs6. I want to to underline here that the focus is not off ECL. On the contrary, we are talking to potential partners for ECL 7 and about introducing prizes and live finals. So please don't think that we are only planning to cater for the Finnish community. We realize that sadly, not everyone can take part in the Finnish championships, but we are continuously working on different initiatives that will either be something for everybody, or for example for Sweden and other countries, who might feel left out. Keep in mind, our staff is from Finland, Sweden, Germany, Latvia, Britain and France. There's plenty of people internally who want to see things happen in their home country, so rest assured this is an international mission.

With eSM 2018 for FIFA taking place already in the summer, it makes sense to talk about it now. Similarly, you will see a lot of Summer Cup communication in the upcoming weeks and months. The communication moving from the ECL to another subject in no way reflects on our work ethic, passion and drive to set up an amazing ECL 7 for NHL 19, but we are also extremely proud of the Summer Cup and the eSM license and they will take the spotlight from time to time, as they should.

 

"But do you realize how annoying it is to not know what is going to happen? Why don't you just tell us everything?"

When I think about it, yes. Sometimes it's hard to remember that the community doesn't know what we're up to. Most of the time, actually.

So why do I or we do it? Why don't we just tell you every detail about our plans? Well, there's several reasons, but from a customer service perspective and as a general rule in life, I have the mentality of "under-promise, over-deliver" which is a good recipe for pleasant surprises. I've not always been good at this, but that's beyond the point. I don't want to tell you something that I don't know is going to happen. I don't want to promise you something and then have to let you down. That is also why donations weren't introduced to the site early on, even when people suggested it; I wanted to prove that we are worthy of it.

Another big reason for being secretive or quiet about things is that until documents are signed and things are made official, negotiations are simply negotiations. It doesn't really matter how close we were to the biggest successful event ever, if it doesn't actually happen. We would rather surprise you positively, than to get your hopes up and then deliver half of what we expected to. Not to mention that it would be super unprofessional to give out information before it's been agreed to, between all parties. In some cases, if you disclose information you were not allowed to and you've signed an NDA (non-disclosure agreement), you could have to pay a large amount for a breach of contract. Not to mention that they would never work with you again.

All of the above being said, I do understand getting impatient and worried when nothing is communicated. We will do our best to improve on communication and the ability to share at least something. Feel free to reach out and ask, if that feeling sneaks in.

 

"Umm.. yeah, great, but what about those of us who don't want to play for money?"

There's plenty of people that want to play just for fun and don't want to stress over money and we understand that very well. Worry not. We plan to always offer free to play leagues and tournaments.

 

"What about legal issues?"

We plan to do everything by the book and follow the law. It is very short-sighted to plan anything else but a legitimate and legal way to handle the money. Taxes will be paid. Remember, this is simply a stepping stone towards professionalism - not a quick cash-grab.

 

Questions from me to you

So, the beauty of this community is that we have a lot of great minds with a shared passion for the game. We agree on many things and we have other opinions on other things. Let's use this thread to discuss your hopes, dreams and expectations.

I'll start off with a few questions off the top of my head, based on the discussion above. For the sake of the clarity, I will use the term buy-in league, indicating that the teams or players were to pay for entry.

NOTE: The below are hypothetical questions and the questions in themselves are in no way a statement to what we will or won't do in the future.

1. Would you join a buy-in league?
2. How much would you be ready to pay for being part of a buy-in league?
3. Would you expect to win this league and regain the money or the full prize?
4. What sort of sum would be acceptable as the prize in the first season of the buy-in league?
5. How would you expect the prize pool to be split between the teams in the league?
6. How long of a season would you expect in a buy-in league?
7. How often would you participate in a buy-in league?
8. If the league was separate from the ECL, would you then prioritize it over the ECL?
9. Do you think ECL should be a buy-in league?
10. Do you think certain divisions should be buy-in, such as ECL Elite?
11. Hypothetically, say ECL Elite and Pro had buy-ins - what would stop an Elite caliber team for signing up for Pro in order to get "an easy" tournament win and prize money?
12. If you are against buy-ins or on the fence about the topic - what would be a small enough amount for you to join and still be able to have fun?

 

That's just a few questions that come to mind around the subject. Feel free to come up with more.

If you had the energy to read through the whole thing - thank you! I will return the favor. 

 

TL;DR: Money leagues are coming, but we are also not forgetting about members who don't want to play for money. Please discuss your expectations, so we can do our best to exceed them. Together we are strong. ⚔️

[Eisenhugel]

8 tuntia sitten, Kenu kirjoitti:

• Would you join a buy-in league?
• How much would you be ready to pay for being part of a buy-in league?
• Would you expect to win this league and regain the money or the full prize?
• What sort of sum would be acceptable as the prize in the first season of the buy-in league?
• How would you expect the prize pool to be split between the teams in the league?
• How long of a season would you expect in a buy-in league?
• How often would you participate in a buy-in league?
• If the league was separate from the ECL, would you then prioritize it over the ECL?
• Do you think ECL should be a buy-in league?
• Do you think certain divisions should be buy-in, such as ECL Elite?
• Hypothetically, say ECL Elite and Pro had buy-ins - what would stop an Elite caliber team for signing up for Pro in order to get "an easy" tournament win and prize money?
• If you are against buy-ins or on the fence about the topic - what would be a small enough amount for you to join and still be able to have fun?

1. I play here just for fun.

2.-7. Can't answer to those questions because I prioritize playing for fun. 

8. I will prioritize ECL over buy in league. 

9. I think ECL should work like this in the future. Buy in league should be with different name. 

10. No, but when you guys are creating this buy in league there should be same like divisions what ECL have right now. People are coming with different skill level. 

11. Elite is for the best players and teams so the prizes should be top too. 

12. I am not against buy in league but I will not take part to it. It's not for me because I play for fun. 

[MovaaN]

9 hours ago, Kenu said:

 

1. Would you join a buy-in league?
2. How much would you be ready to pay for being part of a buy-in league?
3. Would you expect to win this league and regain the money or the full prize?
4. What sort of sum would be acceptable as the prize in the first season of the buy-in league?
5. How would you expect the prize pool to be split between the teams in the league?
6. How long of a season would you expect in a buy-in league?
7. How often would you participate in a buy-in league?
8. If the league was separate from the ECL, would you then prioritize it over the ECL?
9. Do you think ECL should be a buy-in league?
10. Do you think certain divisions should be buy-in, such as ECL Elite?
11. Hypothetically, say ECL Elite and Pro had buy-ins - what would stop an Elite caliber team for signing up for Pro in order to get "an easy" tournament win and prize money?
12. If you are against buy-ins or on the fence about the topic - what would be a small enough amount for you to join and still be able to have fun?

 

I've long been seeing that this game could be eSports capable even with its quarks. Be aware these are my personal opinions and should never taken as "truth"

Short answers

1. Yes
2. This has lot of aspects to see; prize pools, pool dividing. Summa summarum I'd be ready up to 50€
3. I'm competitive player, so yes I would always see winning these leagues and do everything for it
4. Not ready to answer this, pretty much you should be able to get 5 times return when winning all
5. Pretty wide. This because otherwise you would see lot of teams dissappearing fast
6. Longer than ordinary ECL, proper league format
7. Propably as long as my thumbs and brain can keep up. As being from veteran class, I may not have the skills but I do have the vision
8. Yes. Even though ECL is legend already, you have to prioritize things
9. ECL no. But why could Buy-In league could use bit of ECL magic
10. I'm not seeing this.
11. I'll return to this bit later on this post.
12. 10€

 

 

Okay my own thoughts next.

First of all, how we can make this sustainable? 

Viewerbase.

Short and simple. Just making a money league with buy-ins doesn't make it proper eSports. You need people seeing your product and event. Just look at juggernauts at the business: DOTA, LoL, CS:GO, SC2, OW et cetera. What can we learn from those guys? What will work for NHL? 

Game itself.

Lot of this needs two-way discussion and commitment between game developer and the 3rd party organizer. As we know NHL-series is annual publication. This is big factor en route to eSports. We can't rely that the game mechanics will be constant as new things are being implemented and new technology comes on a daily basis. But one thing should be beeing looked at: Randomness. Less RNG, better eSport game. I know that EA wants to people feel more of those "IRL" moments of hockey matches, but in 6v6 enviroment there is already 12 humans with feelings and mood to affect all matches. And just to add. LAN opportunity and Spectator mode are a must for this to be successful at any higher stage.

Format. 

How we play? Straight forward league with POffs?

Well for online tournaments I'd see ECL format just hit the spot. HOWEVER, as for scheduling and match streams, going for eSports means that teams should not be as able as they are in ECL to reschedule. We need to provide to fans and viewers pretty solid timetable and times to find their team playing. As for normal streamers, one key thing to be successful is consistant schedule.

How teams will organize in this league? Well we have pretty successful product from NA, called NHL. I would see this as good example. Closed main league with teams that have farms. This would bring franchices from which people can find theirs to fan and cheer for.

As for local tournaments, the Juggernauts have given us pretty good bracket system that works and is widely accepted. As for single match is around 30 minutes as opposed CS:GO's 60-90min matches we just amp up bestoff series. As they use BO1 and BO3 most of time we could use BO3 and BO5's

Because I like to repeat myself: EA needs to offer game with as less as possible of RNG, LAN possibility and Spectator mode. There are workarounds but those just make things lot easier.

 

Monetary aspect

Buy-in is always bit artificial way to have prizes. It never will be stable way to push towards more professional way of doing things. It helps to go there but soon it should be discarded. Where the money comes after it? Pretty much from sponsors and team licencing. Look at ESL, this is their way to handle things. Teams pay licence and sponsors pump it up. Player himself shouldn't have to pay to play, everybody should have equal chance to be pro.

 

In short we have lot of obstacles to get over. Great to see where this community has gotten thus far, and I see lot of optimism in future. Just don't try to push it, that usually ends up with crash. Patience is virtue!

 

With love

-MovaaN-

[Frilander]

Been waiting for this couple of years and some ppl thought im crazy. Thanks!

Ridicilous to think that buy- in prices would get some teams disappeared because they dont want to buy-in. Imagine how many new players+teams it will give to us? 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Frilander
Forgot something

[gzell60]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Frilander:

Imagine how many new players+teams it will give to us? 

How?

[FlyerKungen]

17 tuntia sitten, Kenu kirjoitti:

        Questions:

1. Would you join a buy-in league?
2. How much would you be ready to pay for being part of a buy-in league?
3. Would you expect to win this league and regain the money or the full prize?
4. What sort of sum would be acceptable as the prize in the first season of the buy-in league?
5. How would you expect the prize pool to be split between the teams in the league?
6. How long of a season would you expect in a buy-in league?
7. How often would you participate in a buy-in league?
8. If the league was separate from the ECL, would you then prioritize it over the ECL?
9. Do you think ECL should be a buy-in league?
10. Do you think certain divisions should be buy-in, such as ECL Elite?
11. Hypothetically, say ECL Elite and Pro had buy-ins - what would stop an Elite caliber team for signing up for Pro in order to get "an easy" tournament win and prize money?
12. If you are against buy-ins or on the fence about the topic - what would be a small enough amount for you to join and still be able to have fun?

1. Yes.

2. Not really matter, 50€ for example.

3. Ofc.

4. Hard to say, I just want Buy-In League so maybe you can give us few options (basic poll) and then all participants can vote for the best one.

5. Same as Question 4.

6. I like ECL format so it depends how many teams we will get into it. So not really matter. 2-3 months is good.

7. As often as people want. Two or three times in a year I guess.

8. Yes because all I care is to play that League which include prizes.

9. I don't care what the League name is. You need to offer League without prizes (just for fun) and League with prizes. Just keep these Divisions and add additional Division called MoneyLeague or something. Elite will take damage but it will take it anyway if people change community because of you are not offering prizes. eSM 6v6 is awesome thing but how about people outside Finland? And yes, I read that article. But they need also prizes for autumn, I can see that frustration already...

10. Kind of same as Question 9. At the end, I don't care how do you guys will add Buy-In League or MoneyLeague or Prizes. Just do it. I don't see it would be bad thing to this community, adding at least optional Buy-In League alongside of regular ECL. Yes, I repeat myself with this.

11. Thats why it need to be separate Buy-In League or only for ECL Elite. Or then ECL Pro Prize pool need to be so much lower than Elite Prize pool. Hard question this is, T. Yoda.