ECL 5 Poll: Should a new team be allowed to apply for ECL Pro?

[OxtreeLAT]

1 hour ago, Nahkatoteemi said:

@OxtreeLAT Once you are here to answer my questions can I ask something more?  Why are we even voting on this? Is there more teams to come than Fat Cats? You have had the opportunity to take Team straight in all the time. This vote is just getting mandate from Pro and Elite teams to piss off rest of us.
 

 

Yes, Fats Cats isn't the only team with intentions of starting in Pro. That said, the number of teams with those intentions is somewhat irrelevant.

Last ECL was the first time we used the division system. That coupled with other unique circumstances forced us to manually seed a portion of the signups. The upcoming ECL will be our second season with this format and now we have another way that we can approach this. We basically want to revisit the current format, evaluate everything and see if we can maybe improve the current system.

As @Kenu mentioned in his initial post - this poll will give us valuable information, but it's not gonna be the deciding factor in the final outcome. We want to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions regarding the current system. That's why also you won't see any staff members engaging in actual conversations discussing pros and cons of each option - we don't want to influence anyone. The point of this is to see where everyone stands regarding these signups.

[iRSPe]

 

59 minutes ago, Jnmxxx said:

Teams will break every season and new teams will be created. If all new teams will always go to lite then those "almost got promoted" lite teams are stuck in the limbo... forever...

Which one you think is more likely? New team breaks down after they need to prove theirselves and they can't or for a long time together played team can't win playoff serie and break down?

46 minutes ago, swe best sniper said:

I dont want to be Dick or nothing but if you but these "average teams" In lite i think they Will dominate lite

There was couple of teams in last lite who was "too good to be in Lite" and yes they didn't get promotion. Actually one of them break down after last season. 

45 minutes ago, Tuukka.R said:

Maybe because 30-0 in two game. #ECL3 #XF-EK #Neverforget

You are comparing us to ECL3 champions is that pretty weak argument? I think X Factor ain't playin in lite or pro next season? 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Nahkatoteemi

[Beniittto]

20 minutes ago, Tuukka.R said:

Maybe because 30-0 in two game. #ECL3 #XF-EK #Neverforget

29-0* not complaining tho, i got 26 points in those games

[iRSPe]

4 minutes ago, OxtreeLAT said:

That's why also you won't see any staff members engaging in actual conversations discussing pros and cons of each option - we don't want to influence anyone. The point of this is to see where everyone stands regarding these signups.

Nice to hear that things are like this at first things seemed a bit different... Maybe I can calm down a bit now 

[Jnmxxx]

11 minutes ago, Nahkatoteemi said:

 

Which one you think is more likely? New team breaks down after they need to prove theirselves and they can't or  in Lite or for a long time together played team can't win playoff serie and break down?

There seems to be group of players and teams that will constantly change and then there is teams that stick together for years, only with few changes in rosters per season. More or less, playoff teams will stick together and relegated teams break down. Mad respect for SIKA, a team that has had alot of ups and downs during all these years and still going strong even they got relegated to pro. 

[iRSPe]

15 minutes ago, Penatski said:

36 minutes ago, Tuukka.R said:

Maybe because 30-0 in two game. #ECL3 #XF-EK #Neverforget

29-0* not complaining tho, i got 26 points in those games

Think we were that bad and we still managed to win ECL4 Pro team in that season. And we are just average Lite team..  

[KingOfApes_]

30 minutes ago, Nahkatoteemi said:

Think we were that bad and we still managed to win ECL4 Pro team in that season. And we are just average Lite team..  

#Torille

[Sandr0hh]

Here is a draft of how the new "NHLGamers Cup" (FA-cup format) could look. 

The teams have been arranged according to last seasons ranking, from 1 to 78. This Cup could, for example, be played either during the current ECL season or between two ECLs. 

In this format, Lite teams can challenge some of the "bigger" teams in competition games. Just like in FA cup, teams from top division get "easier" opponents at first instead of immediately facing another Elite team in the first round. 

The games could be played like BO3 maybe? This means teams can also try some different rosters from regular ECL.

[iRSPe]

31 minutes ago, Tuukka.R said:

#Torille

Yep that was miracle on ice. Here it has been said many times that it is impossible, Pro teams are so far beyond. 

[iSvamp]

2 hours ago, Tuukka.R said:

Maybe because 30-0 in two game. #ECL3 #XF-EK #Neverforget

In 2 games? I remember SIKA won a game with 45-0, in a playoff-game. Don't remember in which game, but it was before imosis "retirement", or after - or both. 

[iSvamp]

2 hours ago, Nahkatoteemi said:

 

 

There was couple of teams in last lite who was "too good to be in Lite" and yes they didn't get promotion. Actually one of them break down after last season. 

 

there was a couple of teams in last "ELITE" who was "too good to be in ELITE", and yes - they didn't won. Touché? 

[Daigle_]

Cheers. What you guys think?

[OGjahajaha]

7 hours ago, Slaivone said:

It's not a slap to their face if they do not get free pass to Pro, which they did not deserve by playing. They should take responsibility for their performance last season and prove they belong to Pro and get that promotion by playing.

Open Pro spots should be open by application for everyone, new or old team. Team that finished strong in Lite last season would still have pretty good chances to get a spot.

Obviously I agree that open pro sport should be open by application for everyone. 

In my post I didn't really refer to the subject of who should be promoted. I might have gotten a bit of tunnel-vision as I didn't realize that the actual problem is that there are empty spots in pro that have to be filled.

In the situation you are referring to I completely agree that if a lite team didn't qualify for pro last season it's just too bad. They should indeed be at the same line with other applicants for the pro spot.

7 hours ago, Slaivone said:

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by jahajaha93

[Slaivone]

On 24.8.2017 at 7:18 PM, Jnmxxx said:

 But dumping all these teams to lite, would be much harder for lite teams to get promoted after. If these teams or atleast some of these teams get spot on pro, it would also mean better chances for lite teams to get promoted next season. Teams will break every season and new teams will be created. If all new teams will always go to lite then those "almost got promoted" lite teams are stuck in the limbo... forever...

Yes, this would be a huge problem if there are new teams that should be playing in Pro and are ready to compete for promotion to Elite and they would be placed in Lite. These teams would play in Lite playoffs against Lite teams that are ready to play in Pro but not in Elite yet. It would require to have Elite-ready team in Lite to get promotion to Pro. And Pro-ready Lite teams would be stuck in Lite. 

There are so many teams in Pro and Lite divisions, maybe there should be more promotion/relegation series between Lite/Pro after Lite playoffs? If the top teams of Lite are at higher level than bottom of Pro as it has been said here. Then it would be fair to give them the series and let them prove they belong to Pro.

For example if we would say top 8 teams of Lite are better than bottom 8 teams of Pro. And there would be only 4 promotions/relegations Lite/Pro. Lite #5-8 would be back in Lite because they did not win Pro-ready Lite team in playoffs but they got no chance to prove they are better than bottom 8 of Pro.

What if Lite #1-2 playoff finalists got promotion to Pro. And last team of both groups of Pro #31-32 relegation to Lite. Rest of Lite quaterfinalist teams #3-8 should have relegation/promotion series against Pro teams #25-30?

Edited August 26, 2017 by Slaivone

[KingOfApes_]

Suggestion: Change elite div system. We will have this problem that there arent top 16 teams. Because #15-16 drop to pro thats just wrong. They should have also relegation battle agaisnt finalist teams. Just make sure we have really top 16 teams what our community can offer . Winning pro doenst mean that you will be elite team for sure. Thats just a way to make elite even more competive than its now. Atleast I like idea that elite is really best as possible. 

Pro winner agaisnt #16 and runner up vs #15. Pro final could be more meaning that is now. Is this fair to pro teams idk but atleast more tighter games in elite for sure. 

So what you guys think ?

[pelimies80]

Hello!

If we want at some players don't create ECL after ECL new teams then

every new team need to start always Lite-Division no matter who is playing in the team. If we want at this creating new teams ECL after ECL continues why you don't allow them start straight to Elite-Division?

I hope admins make smart decision this case. I vote absolutely NO because I don't want at some players do that what I say text above.

Edited August 30, 2017 by pelimies80

[Lionite]

Absolutely NO fastlane for new teams to Pro division. What's the point of having ladder system if you can skip a step?

That being said, i think promotion/relegation series should be played between teams from different divisions. So that for exsample, winning title in Pro wouldn't automaticly mean promotion to Elite, but you'd have to prove in that promotion/relegation series that you are better than the team you would be replacing in that higher tier divison. What's the point of playing a relegation series against a team from your own division? Isn't that what the regular season is for?

And (haven't read the rules for a while so i'm not sure if this already exits):

Spoiler

in addition, i think that we should also have a limit to amount of players that have to stay in the team from previous ECL season to hold division spot in Elite and Pro divisions. Something like 4 or 5 players from the end of last season, so it would be atleast half or slighty more than half of the required number of players for season registration to be counted as the same team, despite the teams name.

Also i would really like to see that "FA Cup" type of tournament with teams playing against teams from different divisions that @koojiikoojii suggested.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Lionite

[Sammy_Lx]

So when we know where the "new" teams had to start?  Lite or pro

[miisolegend]

On 2017-08-26 at 0:17 PM, Tuukka.R said:

Suggestion: Change elite div system. We will have this problem that there arent top 16 teams. Because #15-16 drop to pro thats just wrong. They should have also relegation battle agaisnt finalist teams. Just make sure we have really top 16 teams what our community can offer . Winning pro doenst mean that you will be elite team for sure. Thats just a way to make elite even more competive than its now. Atleast I like idea that elite is really best as possible. 

Pro winner agaisnt #16 and runner up vs #15. Pro final could be more meaning that is now. Is this fair to pro teams idk but atleast more tighter games in elite for sure. 

So what you guys think ?

why not just close ELITE div?

[I_Alex28_I]

I totally agree that the sense of the ladder league system gets lost if New teams can skip one step. So every ECL there are going to be new teams with Elite Players in Pro over and over so you already now who is going to win pro division? It would be unfair for light teams either if they get totally crushed by the Elite Players. If there is a free spot in Elite then a new team with elite Players should take it. If not free players just should join a existing team and not create new ones over and over. Makes the whole thing a bit more realistic

[SepiDN]

On 26.8.2017 at 13.17, Tuukka.R kirjoitti:

Suggestion: Change elite div system. We will have this problem that there arent top 16 teams. Because #15-16 drop to pro thats just wrong. They should have also relegation battle agaisnt finalist teams. Just make sure we have really top 16 teams what our community can offer . Winning pro doenst mean that you will be elite team for sure. Thats just a way to make elite even more competive than its now. Atleast I like idea that elite is really best as possible. 

Pro winner agaisnt #16 and runner up vs #15. Pro final could be more meaning that is now. Is this fair to pro teams idk but atleast more tighter games in elite for sure. 

So what you guys think ?

You think way too high of the lower tier elite teams.  Winning pro doesn't mean you will win elite but it means you can compete there. 
And once you get promoted you have a lot better pool of players to pick from since you are labeled as elite team.

"For sure". You have no fact for that since it's only your assumptions. It's only been 1 season with divisions no one knows for sure.

and on topic:

There's definately circumstances where a team should get a quick pass to PRO. Carlsberg was already dominating PRO teams as they are top tier ELITE team.
But that means there should be no doubt that the team will make it. If a team has lite players that missed PRO in  their #1 line up I don't think they qualify as PRO team let alone worthy of a quick pass to PRO. Carlsberg is good example when a team should get promoted. No one doubted their success in pro. That's how it should happen in my opinion.

Having teams face Lite winners or something like that isn't good option either since that's only 4-7 games before the season even starts. You can get loan players for that, you can have a good streak going on and it's totally different from doing full season. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by SepiDN

[KingOfApes_]

2 tuntia sitten, SepiDN kirjoitti:

You think way too high of the lower tier elite teams.  Winning pro doesn't mean you will win elite but it means you can compete there. 
And once you get promoted you have a lot better pool of players to pick from since you are labeled as elite team.

"For sure". You have no fact for that since it's only your assumptions. It's only been 1 season with divisions no one knows for sure.

and on topic:

There's definately circumstances where a team should get a quick pass to PRO. Carlsberg was already dominating PRO teams as they are top tier ELITE team.
But that means there should be no doubt that the team will make it. If a team has lite players that missed PRO in  their #1 line up I don't think they qualify as PRO team let alone worthy of a quick pass to PRO. Carlsberg is good example when a team should get promoted. No one doubted their success in pro. That's how it should happen in my opinion.

Having teams face Lite winners or something like that isn't good option either since that's only 4-7 games before the season even starts. You can get loan players for that, you can have a good streak going on and it's totally different from doing full season. 

My suggest makes sure that pro winner belongs to elite nothing else, if pro winner can compete in elite it should be able to win #16 team. And no, im pretty sure I have enough experience about teams so I dont think way too high about lower tier teams. 

[Jnmxxx]

2 tuntia sitten, Tuukka.R kirjoitti:

My suggest makes sure that pro winner belongs to elite nothing else, if pro winner can compete in elite it should be able to win #16 team. And no, im pretty sure I have enough experience about teams so I dont think way too high about lower tier teams. 

I have to agree with Tuukka here. When divisions were first introduced i suggested same structure and got shot down without any reasonable arguments. If you want to make sure that there is 16 best teams every season in elite, you need to get rid off straight promotions and relegations. 

Or make it that there is some stakes in pro finals. Only winner of pro gets straight promotion and #2-4 will go throught promotion battle.