Player Ability Bans - ECL '25 Season Discussion

[meiha]

37 minutes ago, Sokkelo__ said:

Well, when playing competitive, everyone wants the best possible chance to win so they end up copying something or everything from top players builds it doesn’t make the game ”broken”. 
 

Actually I think we have not seen this much variation in builds in a long time. For example forwards; someone uses trucu and someone stick ’em up and someone might use even beauty backhand, someone uses golden cq and someone uses golden 1t and someone uses golden puck on a string or even stick ’em up if playing with PMD. And these were just the first that came to my mind, there might be even more. Also the players types can vary at the moment, someone has sniper, someone has dangler and someone has PMD or even a two-way forward, because you can get different traits for each player type. This leads to a conclusion that nothing is really that broken at the moment, because if something was broken like trucu or tipper few years back, 95% of the players would be using it with almost no exceptions. If something was broken there would basically be one copy of each positions build which everyone who wanted to compete for a win would use.

This being said, banning all traits would actually lead to a lot less variation with no trait to choose from, everyone will keep looking at top players builds and making their owns based on those. And after a while there would be 1-2 identical copies of a build that everyone would use.

But is it real variation or just cosmetic? You can equip the Truculence perk and allocate points to stick checking. You can take the Stick Checking perk and put points into hitting ability. You can choose a Shooting perk and assign points to speed, and so on...

 

 

[Sokkelo__]

3 minuuttia sitten, meiha kirjoitti:

But is it real variation or just cosmetic? You can equip the Truculence perk and allocate points to stick checking. You can take the Stick Checking perk and put points into hitting ability. You can choose a Shooting perk and assign points to speed, and so on...

 

 

Yea I get what you mean, but equipping some of the traits actually requires that stat to already be high, for example if I want to use truculence I have to put def awareness and stick checking to almost minimum because truculence needs hitting to be at least 84. And I think taking points from speed to increase shooting would not be an option for the majority of players and that’s why I think having some shooting traits is a must. This rounds up to the same conclusion I said before; banning all traits would be a bad option. But that is of course my opinion and everyone has opinions of their own😇

[meiha]

4 minutes ago, Sokkelo__ said:

Yea I get what you mean, but equipping some of the traits actually requires that stat to already be high, for example if I want to use truculence I have to put def awareness and stick checking to almost minimum because truculence needs hitting to be at least 84. And I think taking points from speed to increase shooting would not be an option for the majority of players and that’s why I think having some shooting traits is a must. This rounds up to the same conclusion I said before; banning all traits would be a bad option. But that is of course my opinion and everyone has opinions of their own😇

Why is reducing speed not an option? Is it something that people don’t want to do, or is it mandatory at the highest level? If players who focus on shooting have to give up their speed, then not everyone else should have to be fast either.

Golden perks does not need any level from ratings.

[Sokkelo__]

The downside of that change would be too big I think. With this games randomness you can’t quarantee yourself to score with even 99 shooting stats, but with 85 speed you are quaranteed to be late from every situation😅

I would’t mind seeing just the golden traits to be banned if it goes to that😊

[meiha]

I utilize speed to fix my positioning issues. It requires skill to position myself and anticipate situations at a slower pace. If I can't learn that, then I'll just have to bang my head against the wall when I don't get rewarded for good scoring chances with poor shooting ratings. However, in my opinion, this would at least bring the much-needed variety to the game.

[saaggssy]

What you talking about, if team is decent you can play pretty normaly, just dont let guys alone in front of net, not let open one timers and dont let them stand and get ready shot for snipe, yesterday all night proved again and again, that you can stop every one timer when you time it right, of course some goes in, but i need to agree in higher level  plays where goalies are realy good, its gonna be boring if every shot we catch, i made yesterday rage quit some teams so its furstrating if you catch all one timers, while your goalie let in everything  but yeah traits make you learn to be perfect from goalie perspective. When i played on teams without traits it was easy. even with all traits and all its hard to sometimes beat some goalies. Game without traits gonna be furstrating for most of players, but i still think silvers is enough to be allowed gold is kinda arcade. 

But we are here talking the same stuff all over and over again just with different words, just need to wait what LA decides on this. I think its all okey for now, game is broken byself not like traits change it so much. (opinion from goalie perspective ofcourse)

Edited yesterday at 11:39 AM by saaggssy

[meiha]

Could it be that good goalies read the game well and when people have used to use these perks, their habit is to look one-timers everytime or other chances that gives the reward with perks. It makes things easier from goalie perpective in my opinion. Should goalies be rewarded aswell if they are really good? Perhaps there is a need to find different ways to score goals, be more unpredictable?

[saaggssy]

Yes but its make us work harder, not like stay still or just square up to pucks, we need to be more aware more faster reactions, and its make game harder and realy good golies can shine more. the same close quarters make us be aware that we post hug in time or get perfect position, we drop butterfly in time to cover fivehole, we position self on end of breakaway to get save, we need to challenge more if we want to get this snipes and so on. if traits is all gone, we can just cruise goal line and all will be fine all goalies will be insane and no difference from neo to pro. and on top of that, now realy need to decide to put traits and attributes in right direction - i tested lot of builds and its realy tricky to balance out it, you cant take one build what is elite good and be good, you need to find your build to shine now. 

one timer is the best way to beat goalie, otherwise you almost never can beat goalie.

Edited 23 hours ago by saaggssy

[jm98II]

13 minuuttia sitten, meiha kirjoitti:

Could it be that good goalies read the game well and when people have used to use these perks, their habit is to look one-timers everytime or other chances that gives the reward with perks. It makes things easier from goalie perpective in my opinion. Should goalies be rewarded aswell if they are really good? Perhaps there is a need to find different ways to score goals, be more unpredictable?

A one-timer is the most effective way to score in real life. Why shouldn't it be the case in this game as well? Sure, variation in scoring would be nice, but the game mechanics are what they are

[iSvamp]

1 timme sedan, jm98II säger:

A one-timer is the most effective way to score in real life. Why shouldn't it be the case in this game as well? Sure, variation in scoring would be nice, but the game mechanics are what they are

Slappers are the most common shot type. Not the most effective one. / By Hockeyanalyctics.com 

Shot Type Shots Goals Shooting Percentage
Backhand 4246 405 9.5%
Slap 20148 1354 6.7%
Snap 8047 812 10.1%
Tip-In 3034 615 20.3%
Wrap 730 40 5.5%
Wrist 19129 1640 8.6%

Total 55334 4866 8.8%

Sorry, but we can't add "facts" to the discussion if it isn't "facts". 

[I0LL1]

52 minutes ago, iSvamp said:

Slappers are the most common shot type. Not the most effective one. / By Hockeyanalyctics.com 

Shot Type Shots Goals Shooting Percentage
Backhand 4246 405 9.5%
Slap 20148 1354 6.7%
Snap 8047 812 10.1%
Tip-In 3034 615 20.3%
Wrap 730 40 5.5%
Wrist 19129 1640 8.6%

Total 55334 4866 8.8%

Sorry, but we can't add "facts" to the discussion if it isn't "facts". 

 

Well a slapshot is a completely different thing than a one-timer so that data is kinda irrelevant.

[iSvamp]

5 minuter sedan, I0LL1 säger:

Well a slapshot is a completely different thing than a one-timer so that data is kinda irrelevant.

Well, we can dig deeper if you want to. 

 

To begin, we’ll simply look at the shot and shot-on-target shooting percentage of each shot type we have recorded data on. Observe the below tables.

What we quickly see is that one-timers and deflections see the largest rise in shooting percentage if they are on target. One-timers especially are difficult shots to pull off so a larger percentage of them miss the net or are blocked, more so than any other shot type. So, one-timers, when on net (42% of the time compared to 50% of the time for all others) are an incredibly dangerous shot, second only to deflections. Of course, which shot types are repeatable for players? Which ones can better predict the rate at which they score goals? That’s what we want to know.

 

 

The above table shows the single R values for each shot type’s repeatability and the relationship between each shot type and future goal-scoring. I show these values to indicate the size of the relationship whereas a R^2 value can obscure a negative relationship. I also didn’t want to include twelve scatter plots where one table would do. The sample size was 157 forwards with at least 200 minutes in each half of the sample.

 

[Rairama]

In a way I understand why people want golden traits to be banned. But banning all seems dumb because you can defend against tippers and one timers. Someone has cq and is driving to the net? As a D-man: Don't let him.

And then again same perks are available to everyone. Opponent is using big tipper and gets a goal from tipping and now you're mad because it worked? Boohoo, take it yourself and go stand in front of the net if it's so op.

 

So it's basically skill issue if something's op or not 🤭

[pakjiz]

4 tuntia sitten, jm98II kirjoitti:

A one-timer is the most effective way to score in real life. Why shouldn't it be the case in this game as well? Sure, variation in scoring would be nice, but the game mechanics are what they are

I think if we want to talk what’s realistic and what’s not we need to also acknowledge the fact that there’s only a handful players in the NHL that can shoot a 1T even close to the likes you get with the gold xf in this game.

Not commenting on anything else. For me it really doesn’t matter if all, some or no xfs are banned. Just wanted to throw that in there.

Edited 20 hours ago by pakjiz

[meiha]

Can someone with knowledge of game mechanics explain the difference between the gold 1t perk and the silver 1t perk, as well as the same for Close Quarters? Are they comparable in some way? For example, is an 85+ shooting attributes with a silver 1t perk comparable to a gold 1t perk with low shooting attributes?

Please don't say that the gold 1t perk is must-have to score goals.

[Vattuyy]

I asked from 6s draft channel what people think about ability bans and here are results.

 

[pappeen-]

2 timmar sedan, pakjiz säger:

I think if we want to talk what’s realistic and what’s not we need to also acknowledge the fact that there’s only a handful players in the NHL that can shoot a 1T even close to the likes you get with the gold xf in this game.

Not commenting on anything else. For me it really doesn’t matter if all, some or no xfs are banned. Just wanted to throw that in there.

This ^^^^^^^^

[Baranizer]

09.02.2025 в 12:11, Sokkelo__ сказал:

Well, when playing competitive, everyone wants the best possible chance to win so they end up copying something or everything from top players builds it doesn’t make the game ”broken”. 
 

Actually I think we have not seen this much variation in builds in a long time. For example forwards; someone uses trucu and someone stick ’em up and someone might use even beauty backhand, someone uses golden cq and someone uses golden 1t and someone uses golden puck on a string or even stick ’em up if playing with PMD. And these were just the first that came to my mind, there might be even more. Also the players types can vary at the moment, someone has sniper, someone has dangler and someone has PMD or even a two-way forward, because you can get different traits for each player type. This leads to a conclusion that nothing is really that broken at the moment, because if something was broken like trucu or tipper few years back, 95% of the players would be using it with almost no exceptions. If something was broken there would basically be one copy of each positions build which everyone who wanted to compete for a win would use.

This being said, banning all traits would actually lead to a lot less variation with no trait to choose from, everyone will keep looking at top players builds and making their owns based on those. And after a while there would be 1-2 identical copies of a build that everyone would use.

Funny thing is that all this happened after most useful Perk (Elite Edges) was cut lose. But yeah, there are a lot more variations right now. At least meta is divided in several builds - so there is smth you can choose from.