Player Ability Bans - ECL '25 Season Discussion

[meiha]

My belief is/was that shooting abilities have effect. However, if this is not the case, it does not make sense to ban all the traits. If you cannot be an effective goal scorer for your team by increasing/maximizing your shooting attributes, everyone will choose speed instead of shooting.

Shooting abilities are important because they are in same category with skating abilities, meaning players must somewhat choose between them. This could also give more chance for bigger player types. Luckily, now there will be tournaments where all traits are banned, so we can gain more experience on this matter.

 

[iSvamp]

Bann them all +1

[Mozjayh]

3 tuntia sitten, NikkeDangles kirjoitti:

Yes we had no abilities tournament with elite teams and the games were boring and almost impossible to score even against weaker teams which is not good.

^Agreed

You should get rewarded for creating the best scoring chances and without certain abilities u just won't since the goalies are so bad in this game and the shooting mechanics are inconsistent (Bring back NHL 22 goalies). 1T especially in general makes the game more out wide/open ups the space more which makes the gameplay better in general. Nobody wants to see the same 5-man stack infront the net and see all the goals happen with-in the goalie crease. If we play with no traits just shooting wherever is gonna be the best bet and getting pressure that way would be the way to go 

Also to Sopuli, I think that u don't get the main idea of banning truculence since it just ruins the gameplay experience in competitive level which has been covered in this topic a long time ago. Also without stick em up u can't really poke check but without truculence u can still hit fairly well without problems. But these are just a few things to consider.

[Saviinainen]

1 tunti sitten, sopulii04 kirjoitti:

I honestly do not see reasons to ban a specific set of abilities (except big tipper) - to me it's either the way it is right now, or everything banned (honestly the current gameplay isn't too bad, don't really care which way it goes).

I do wanna hear some reasoning behind banning uf, no contest and truculence though. Uf and no contest are already super rare to see players use so that's a mystery for me why those would be banned. When it comes to truculence, I do see how it is annoying to play against but my question is why would truculence be banned while stick em up is literally used by everyone. Let's take Parasite as an example team: they have 5x stick em up & 1x truculence. So the best team in Europe thinks stick em up is basically 5x more useful than truculence but truculence is the one that's a problem?

+1

[pappeen-]

1 timme sedan, sopulii04 säger:

I honestly do not see reasons to ban a specific set of abilities (except big tipper) - to me it's either the way it is right now, or everything banned (honestly the current gameplay isn't too bad, don't really care which way it goes).

I do wanna hear some reasoning behind banning uf, no contest and truculence though. Uf and no contest are already super rare to see players use so that's a mystery for me why those would be banned. When it comes to truculence, I do see how it is annoying to play against but my question is why would truculence be banned while stick em up is literally used by everyone. Let's take Parasite as an example team: they have 5x stick em up & 1x truculence. So the best team in Europe thinks stick em up is basically 5x more useful than truculence but truculence is the one that's a problem?

Listen to this guy! Stick em up, both the gold and the silver are so fkn op this year. So idk why we dont bring that up, everyone are maniacs when it comes to unrealistic pokes. 

[iSvamp]

NHL 21 ECL 11 - 1 ability at builds = 4.52 goals per game 
NHL 21 ECL 12 - 1 ability at builds =  4.77 goals per game

NHL 22 - Winter - Nothing banned = 4,25 goals per game 
NHL 22 - Spring - Nothing banned = 4.29 goals per game

NHL 23 winter - Nothing banned = 5.18 goals per game
NHL 23 Spring - CQ/tipper banned = 4.98 goals per game

NHL 24 Winter -  Tipper banned = 5.10 goals per game 
NHL 24 Spring - Tipper banned = 4,78 goals per game 

NHL 25 Winter - Tipper banned, "OP Gold One tee/CQ era" - 5.53 goals per game

 

Just putting it here so we don't keep painting the “tournament with CQ ban as something that completely ruined the gameplay when it happened” - In comparison to other tournaments. 

And that record in “goals per game” from this year's Elite season where people played with golden One tee and golden CQ more frequently in the new “meta”.

Do what you want with that information. 

Have a nice weekend everyone 🙂

[NikkeDangles]

13 minuuttia sitten, iSvamp kirjoitti:

NHL 21 ECL 11 - 1 ability at builds = 4.52 goals per game 
NHL 21 ECL 12 - 1 ability at builds =  4.77 goals per game

NHL 22 - Winter - Nothing banned = 4,25 goals per game 
NHL 22 - Spring - Nothing banned = 4.29 goals per game

NHL 23 winter - Nothing banned = 5.18 goals per game
NHL 23 Spring - CQ/tipper banned = 4.98 goals per game

NHL 24 Winter -  Tipper banned = 5.10 goals per game 
NHL 24 Spring - Tipper banned = 4,78 goals per game 

NHL 25 Winter - Tipper banned, "OP Gold One tee/CQ era" - 5.53 goals per game

 

Just putting it here so we don't keep painting the “tournament with CQ ban as something that completely ruined the gameplay when it happened” - In comparison to other tournaments. 

And that record in “goals per game” from this year's Elite season where people played with golden One tee and golden CQ more frequently in the new “meta”.

Do what you want with that information. 

Have a nice weekend everyone 🙂

Make it snappy was as good as cq in NHL 23, but we didnt know it cuz people were used to using cq.

Gameplay with more scoring is better right?

Edited 7 hours ago by NikkeDangles

[iSvamp]

57 minuter sedan, NikkeDangles säger:

Make it snappy was as good as cq in NHL 23. 

Gameplay with more scoring is better right?

Absolutely it is so Nikke!
But I think one of your points that went wrong up here was that "Yes we had no abilities tournament with elite teams and the games were boring and almost impossible to score even against weaker teams which is not good."

Because the facts show that there was hardly any difference. There was a difference of about “50” goals between 16 teams in total. (0.20 goals)

The conclusion should have been. 
that Abilities are a handicap for bad teams today, which should mean that the chances should be higher that a bad team sometimes wins against a better team just because they have this “handicap”. 

Of course, a team like yours, without abilities, would probably be an equally dominant team with an even bigger gap in a league without abilities. A bit like HAVU and FILA dominated the scene before hREDS came along. Before this, no other team was even close. And here nobody played with shooting abilities, then it was only “lungs” that counted among the elite teams. 

Skilled teams had become even harder for the teams below to beat. Parasite as an example, would probably have had an even bigger gap to many of the teams behind. Precisely because the best players are there, and they play in one of the teams with the best team play.

But I have honestly no Idea - This is just my thoughts  

----
"Gameplay with more scoring is better right?" 
- Well, bring back tipper then! 😀😉

Edited 6 hours ago by iSvamp

[NikkeDangles]

40 minuuttia sitten, iSvamp kirjoitti:

Absolutely it is so Nikke!
But I think one of your points that went wrong up here was that "Yes we had no abilities tournament with elite teams and the games were boring and almost impossible to score even against weaker teams which is not good."

Because the facts show that there was hardly any difference. There was a difference of about “50” goals between 16 teams in total. 

The conclusion should have been. 
that Abilities are a handicap for bad teams today, which should mean that the chances should be higher that a bad team sometimes wins against a better team just because they have this “handicap”. 

Of course, a team like yours, without abilities, would probably be an equally dominant team with an even bigger gap in a league without abilities. A bit like HAVU and FILA dominated the scene before hREDS came along. Before this, no other team was even close. And here nobody played with shooting abilities, then it was only “lungs” that counted among the elite teams. 

Skilled teams had become even harder for the teams below to beat. Parasite as an example, would probably have had an even bigger gap to many of the teams behind. Precisely because the best players are there, and they play in one of the teams with the best team play.

But I have honestly no Idea - This is just my thoughts  

----
"Gameplay with more scoring is better right?" 
- Well, bring back tipper then! 😀😉

I didnt understand how was my point wrong? I might be slow tho

And I dont believe that banning abilities would make the skill gap bigger, I actually think that would do the opposite cuz people could just collapse infront of their net and not even worry about 1ts and so that would be bad for viewers and players (the game rewards active defence right now and not skill zoning which is pretty nice imo). I respect peoples opinions, but banning all abilities would not be good for the game. Im one of the most active players in the scene so I know what im talking about little bit

+ the game runs on a different game engine and I feel like the gameplay is build around certain abilities in EASHL.
 

[iSvamp]

1 timme sedan, NikkeDangles säger:

Make it snappy was as good as cq in NHL 23. 

Gameplay with more scoring is better right?

And I dont believe that banning abilities would make the skill gap bigger, I actually think that would do the opposite cuz people could just collapse infront of their net and not even worry about 1ts and so that would be bad for viewers and players (the game rewards active defence right now and not skill zoning which is pretty nice imo).

And given that you barely conceded any goals this year - given that you are already the best team in Europe. How did you expect teams to score on you without abilities when there are only 1-2 teams that can match you in puck speed and team play? 

The teams only chance right now is that you are out of position, and someone gets a golden one tee to kick, or a free position against your goalie with CQ. 

This would of course make the skill gap bigger, because if the only thing that counts is “skill against skill” combined with teamplay, you would outplay all your opponents even more. So of course this would make the overmatched teams completely brutal again. 

Im one of the most active players in the scene so I know what im talking about little bit 
Yes, we all know that you play more than most, and that you are better than most both in 6s and in versus. It is known among everyone.

But that's not really part of the discussion and makes one argument outweigh another. 

But don't get me wrong, all respect to you

Edited 6 hours ago by iSvamp

[NikkeDangles]

I think the best thing to do is to run a poll for every division in the ECL about this topic.

[Saviinainen]

Like i wrote earlier in this topic, imo truculence is not that op in this version. You are able to counter that with counter hit (at least silver trucu) and i have seen many people doing that lately so imo its not games fault if you are not using that to avoid those hits. And game meta has been for a long time like fast skaters so i dont know any high level player who is using golden trucu/big build (counter hit isnt working against golden trucu). 

Big tipper was too broken to be used and that was good like Sportsgamer banned that. If we are looking/hunting like really broken x-factors/traits then we should speak like stick em up (you can just spam pokecheck without that much penalties), golden 1T, golden CQ (goalies are not awarded that much about good positioning, shots are just going in). So many of these are much broken than truculence imo so those should be banned first. But there is always different views between dmans, forwards and goalies and thats why i hope like lets keep big tipper banned and others are allowed like last ECL

[Pensasmies]

Ban every ability except truculence. (y)

But on a series note, keep it as is or ban them all.

Edited 4 hours ago by Pensasmies

[l-Furyan-l]

Yeah, for me: either keep it as it is (only Big Tipper banned) or go with all abilities/traits banned, as SG currently seems to be doing. At least based on what has been confirmed in the World Cup, WECL and SCL, thus far. 

Arbitrarily banning 3-4 specific traits in order to create a specific play style preferred by specific players? That ain't it.