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We have players who support the idea that there’s some fees, players who pay whatever it cost and players who want to play only for free. The jump from free to +50€ was just too big at once and its a huge risk that ECL is going to shrink, a lot. Most or some of us play just for fun and ECL is "just" supplemental, not the goal. I'm curious what sportsgamer has thought about backup players. Why anyone wants to join in a team for backup role and pay for that, no one. So other active players have to pay also the backup players fees, otherwise the roster stays short. These comments about kenus Ferrari and how much sportsgamer is making money for all this is lame. You cannot calculate “fees minus prize pool money equals profit”, how about taxes, servers, website updates, stream staff and contents, game schedule / problem solving, marketing, staff, management etc.. But still, I don’t support the idea for these big fees especially if the prize pool money is what SP is heading to, because it will shrink our communitie and teams / player’s amount. In my opinion, I support the idea for some kind of players licenses (max.20€) and prize pool money is voluntary. Pro and Elite fees and licenses are different story.

Man. As a fellow old-timer, I'm glad to have you around to this day. In fact, I consider you a kind of scene legend. I mean, you were trolling these conversations literally before some of the players today were even born. At the same time, I can't help but wonder. Over all these years, I don't remember seeing you make one comment where you didn't try to get a rise out of people. You've made a lot of comments and I'm sure some of your more constructive messages are just slipping my mind right now, but that's only because they're drowned out by the overwhelming barrage of confrontational posts. It's just strange to me that you would bother keeping that up year in, year out. I am aware that unlike me, you actually have a life, which just makes it all the more baffling.

The day Sportsgamer takes a fee from all players. Is the day when everybody in the community can demand that Sportsgamer also starts acting like a professional organization/company. Asking for 40€ á player is alot of money even tho most of us or all of us can afford it. Its absolutely madness that most of the money goes to the higher tier. When most of the money comes from lower Ts. An example of not acting like a professional organization is to drop this kind of info a week before signup ends. Also there should be other benefits like staff should add played games or build a better api. If you pay for a product it should work better. Support/LA cases should be investigsted and solved in a few hours not in days/weeks. Core, Lite, Pro and Elite should all have broadcasts and all what comes around when a team and all the players in the team pay to play. Just some examples.....

This is about lower divisions: First comes product, after that you can charge what that product is worth. Currently the only product for Neo/Core/Lite is platform where schedule games and play some sort of competition - no more, no less. Should you charge for it - yes, why not? There will be demand. Should you charge 40eur per player (team and player license) - absolutely not. No surprise most of the community reacted this way as everyone is prepared to pay what they think it's worth for any product or service. The right route imho would be charging only fixed Team Participation Fee so then captain's can charge less or don't charge at all so called backup players. Everything else about "community dream" regarding world finals etc is only a wet dream for Pro-Gamers, but not roughly 80% of us who play this game for fun.

Also the timing for these increased fees could have been better. First of all everyone had to buy PS5's, then of course the game and now the increased team licenses plus the player licenses. That's a lot of money. I really understand the frustration of the lower divisions especially compared to the price pool. This also affects us who play Pro. Now "only" the top 8 get something back. For most I don't think it's about that players can't afford to pay the fees, but it's a matter of principles. Maybe sportsgamer could consider to be more open to the comminity about where the money will be used for? We all do understand there are expenses, but the lack of information causes the amount of negativity atm.. "Se oli tonnin seteli".. Tonni

Cry me a river. How constructive is it to facepalm 42 messages without writing your own opinion? You can see my opinion in the beginning of this thread. My other opinion got deleted last night by some swedish admins at the swedish server where I showed the community some facts. And that cancel culture is not on me. --- Okey, but here we are. And you can get my second opinion about this. (Cuz you asked about it) There is NO players from Elite in this thread that is complaining about this decision. Cuz this benefits them all. They get the money. And they know it. There is no players AT ALL from elite in this thread that is even showing some understanding for the teams in the lower divisions and what it means for them. Im not a player that is playing in Elite nowadays, but still, this will not affect me at all cuz I have an organization that is supporting our team with things like this. Pretty much the same situation as it is for the teams in Elite. But still -I'm here showing my opinion about this crap. Cuz I do understand that this will affect a lot of teams from the lower divisions, teams that now considering moving themselves to the NEO-division cuz they don't have the money or the motivation to spons the higher divisions. Yes, I havs been here for a very long time as you mentioned. And with that I also know how this scene works. I also know that a cancel culture is a pretty bad thing. I also know that there is people sitting at discord pep-talking me to say the things im actually saying cuz they are to scrared to say them by themselves. I also know that some players from the higher divisions also only care about the money and not the community. Which we have seen a several of times lately (with teams not showing up for tournaments cuz there is no prizepools etc) And thats actually the difference between them and me. What about you? Which side have you choosed? And whats your opinion about this situation? - can you write something constructive about it now when you tried to write something constructive about me?

I think it’s good that the players in the lower divisions provide income for players in Elite who might not have jobs etc. to get consistent income otherwise.

Yeah 20€-100€ isnt that big of a deal to pay. However, when you know what you get in return for that money its getting pretty funny. For lower divisions the return is basically just a platform where to schedule games and nothing else. Its more of an principle not to pay this kind of fee’s. You know many people comment that just dont go out for one night or just dont buy that case of beer or something but i can feed my two kids for a week with 45€ to give some perspective.

As Captain of Inter Iceland (Former Geekz Energy eSports) we will play this upcoming ECL PRO, but it would be fine, if our earnig from last ECL Spring /Playoffs Round 1 ~ 210 € are here! I payed last year all from my side, and this year myb aswell, i don't the money so much, i have a good Private Life, but its not professionell to wait a half year for our earnig! And now i have to pay 560€, but still wait for my 210 €? Don't get me wrong, we like to play ECL, especially its the only Chance as a Team from Mittle Europe to play against the north, but if u have a prizepool, dont let the guys wait for their cashout! Kind regards josh

Maybe Kenu can open little bit that situation about lower divisions ? Is it there coming something more to lite and core also, streams, better previews and other stuff? Why sportsgamer dont take more money from elite? Elite teams have lots of bigger prize pools and they have sponsors also. So maybe elite team and player licenses should to pay double or even more what is right now. Like someone said earlier in this conversation, in real life lower divisions not pay higher divisions salary. Its right if sportgamer start to take money from their expenses, but now payer is from wrong series.

Every guy who writing here please tell me What you can do without paying it? That just normal, everything you wanna do In your Free time cost and everything cost so much More than this…. So take you head out off ass please😴

I think its a good thing, even though price Pool should be updated in a direction that mid-table Elite Teams also have something to play for not only top 4 Teams. Like now we pay 1.000€ + Player licence for two seasons without having a chance at getting something back, when we could just go to Pro Div and fight for the win/money with less pay in.

Your reply is kind of all over the place so I'll disregard the parts that don't seem relevant. I read all of your messages in the thread before posting my first response to you. It's true that you gave your opinion. You always give your opinion, so that's definitely not in question. My gripe is with the way you go about it. Going on a decade and a half now I've seen you serve your opinions as a condiment to go with the main dish of trolling the conversation. That tends to leave a bad taste in some people's mouths. To be fair, maybe you really do care about the community. The way it comes across though is that you care much more about provoking people into arguing with you so that you can reply with more of the same. As for my take on the actual topic, I'm kind of conflicted but leaning more toward thinking the implementation is unfair. I applaud SportsGamer for taking steps to build up the brand with increased visibility via prominent advertising, increased prize pools, celebrity guests on streams, etc. I see all that as part of the same overarching strategy where the Elite and FCL game broadcasts got more polished and professional, and I see these increased license fees as perhaps a necessary move that plays into all that. At the same time, the deal just got a whole lot worse for anyone below the Elite level, and it gets worse the lower you go in the divisions. I can well understand the confusion and frustration especially of a Core or Lite player who has to pay more for participation without feeling like they're getting more in return.

I'm kind of in the neutral about this. I'm very competitive and am all in for bigger prize pools, but having played the last few tournaments in Core, understand the arguments for the license removals. If and when we are going down the route of licenses and fees for tournaments, i truly think the community will and probably should be divided. SportsGamer is heading towards professionalism, and that costs money. This was bound to happen. Maybe SportsGamer could come up with tournaments for those who are ACTUALLY competitive, and then separate ones for those who just want to play somewhat competitive hockey without paying or paying too much. For example from Lite upwards it could be for only those who want to pay the "bigger" license fees for bigger prize pools, and Core and/or Neo could stay free or have very minor license fees? This could also create a need for new league(s) for both sets of categories. The fees also create issues in the functionality of the tournaments. Have you seen leagues with payments (competitive leagues) where the teams can shift and change the schedule of the games as they want, multiple times? Which is why charging Core teams for example is very problematic since most just play for fun with a little competitive aspect brought in by the league and some have difficult work schedules. This goes for the players in other divisions too, of course but at least it would be their choice. All i'm saying is this: The addition of fees kind of forcefully casts all of the playerbase into the same mold. Everybody wants the competitive side of the leagues, but for some the fees and licenses are too much and should be resolved somehow.

WATCH OUT EVERYONE! THE FACEPALM KNIGHTS @Frans-Finand @wade(wadepaananenenenene - wrong tag, can't delete it) is here! First of their Name, Queens of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Sportsgamer

Yep and that is a very good organized tournament, Zürich esports you like to play caps gaming tournament😄😄😄 @IDangledYouOut @Keuschemisch

Together with our community, we want to continue developing the ECL and this platform as a whole. The league has been active since 2015 and ran without profit every season. Since the start, we’ve grown from a 50 team single division into a five division league with around 300 active teams, which has led to the requirements of the team increasing. These changes allow us to focus on core operations and develop even further. This year, we have decided to make one of our community dreams come true with the World Finals. This is a substantial investment from our side, but we feel like now is the time to make that happen. It's understandable how it may appear on surface level like all of the costs are related to prize money. What is less apparent is the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes. When speaking about pure administrative work, the lower divisions take exponentially more effort to run, while Pro and Elite tend to operate more smoothly due to the experience of the teams and players in these divisions, and the lower number of teams involved.

I can tell you that I respect svamp 100 procent. Yes i have been fucking mad at him also but he always says and write what he thinks thats the best type of people i think. Not talking shit behind back and stuff and he is not trying to kiss other peolpe back just for likes. He has my respect 100 procent and in this he speaks just the truth.

But is it really community dream? Or is it only the dream for the like top 5 elite teams who have the chance to get there. Feels like everyone else in elite, pro, lite, core and neo is paying unnecessarily much for making the «dream» of maybe the top 5 elite teams.

I prefer not to speak 🗿

I don`t have the time to play atm bc of work related stuff, have been pretty much on a brake for more than 6 months. I don`t agree with neo nor core fees. Guys are playing for fun and/or are new to the scene, not necessarily competitive mindset at all. Same goes 30-50% of lite teams. So… But at the same time I think: There is no free lunch in the table. - Servers cost money, maintenance cost money, platform develepment…everything costs money. Hours Kenu has put in this for free of charge is mindblowing. So I more than understand. We have enjoyed ECL for no cost, same goes to NHLGamer/Sportsgamer for years, but there are people who has done the work behind the scenes. So everyone is ofc free to try to do the same and put only the hours in. How many of members are actually ready to do that? I`d guess Kenu has done thousands of hours to ours behalf. And ofc all the volunteers also. And no, I`m not one of them, don`t have the time to put effort in it.

I'll rather have the beers

How ungrateful some of you guys are here? I don't see why it is such a big deal for people to pay a small fee for a one year license. You have been given an opportunity for 5+ years to compete and challenge the best in the NHL for free to this date. SportsGamer was a hobby for the organizers, but due to increasing amount of work a hobby became a job. SportsGamer is a company that has employees, and organizing tournaments of this quality is a full time job, and the people who are organizing these tournaments have families to feed. Don't buy two 24 packs of beer this weekend, and practice CHEL instead and there is your license.

Any neo teams looking for a player?

It is so funny how people always want to count someones money and also get everything free of charge)))) so pathetic It is understandable to ask about the prize money which you didn't receive for some reason. But to whine about a little fee is nonsense. Especially if you compare it to the cost of the game or Playstation5 ffs. You get the finest experience playing ECL and guys doing this stuff for free for so long... But usually its like that - do something for free once and almost everyone around will think you owe them that and you'll have to do it like that for eternity)))) Want a better experience - pay. Its how it works. Dont wanna pay? Make your own free of charge league))

To be fair Elite Teams do not really profit from it. Only the Top 3-4 Teams who are really capable of winning or at least reaching the finals profit from the higher prize money. All other Elite Teams, including even those reaching the quarterfinals, go out with -500€ Team license per season + the player licenses

This, all of this. 👏

Bullshit. Caps Gaming is for free.

Diizzylicious… yeah maybe. At the same time (not related to that what I wrote) 45€ is 45€. You drink 5 beers in some of Helsinki Centrum`s nightclub`s, and 45€ Is gone. But now when I`m thinking, the problem what I see is what was written earlier. Core and Lite collects the money, but the prizepools in those respective divisions are much smaller compared to Pro and Elite. So that is for me bit unfair. It doesn’t go like that in real world leagues either. Division 3 and 4 are not paying Top-leagues salary.

Cuz who the fuck understands finnish outside of Finland? 😂

This is ridiculous. I’ve been around since 09, participating in most of the tournaments, ups and downs. Been fortunate enough to play at the highest level, competing with the very best and at the same time surrounded by wonderful team mates in Synergy Hockey trough most of the seasons. That will come to an end personally if these new changes are here to stay. ECL has always been what keeps me at least somewhat motivated, even if the game itself sucks. It’s worth the grind in EASHL when you got ECL coming. But paying money to be able to participate? And not even by choice, even in the lower divisions, absolutely baffling decision. I won’t do it, I could, but I won’t. very disappointing news. My opinion, I don’t care what anyone makes of it.

in Finnish.. Köyhät kyykkyyn

Can someone in the organization please explain how the fck are the prize pools in core&lite less than 10% from the total pot? Grow the prize pool to 50% and you still get 30k from the players and all is fine. This current ”demand” is just fcked up….

I’m not lovin’ it. Don’t get me wrong. I appreciate the work what sportsgamer community has done for today. This is not one of them! NOW FIX THE PRICE-QUALITY RATIO RN!!! Core is core. Lite will be lite, relate those prices to rewards. I won’t swallow without chewing this shit 💪 Thank you and sorry 🏄‍♂️

I hope you can sleep at nights after all. Also, good that we got your opinion. Even tho you couldnt write it without someone asking about it. Take care

quit playing games with my heart

Ye, fine to pay but not how it is now. Always rescheduling problems and rules that are not followed.

Wow! That was a Stone Cold move!🥊🥊Sportsgamer vs Community

We all understand there are costs related to website, organising stuff, events, staff for the ECL... I would be fine paying a license for a team and a increase on last years would be fair IMO. I wholeheartedly disagree on paying a player's license. 20€ for some players that are back ups? Or have difficult work schedules? And that's only for this year's edition of ECL. This is going to be a big source of conflict. Leave it for ELITE and maybe PRO, for the rest of leagues makes absolutely no sense.

Here is the math. Comments?

Do not disrespect the mighty sausage tournament!

SCL 2022-Prizepool? Wilhelm Hockey-tour NHLGamer

I agree with the individual license but not for that price. Further I see a huge shift happening towards ECL Neo. An additional fee of approx 30 euros minimum (license + part of team) is a very steep increase just to play one version of NHL. And that's for Core only. Add 10 to 15 PER LEAGUE upwards. I hate to play that card, but in this economy, that might alienize a lot of our player base and the fundamentals we worked for four so many years. This league was for everyone regardless of your background, age, income and so on. Now I see a real danger of driving a stake thorough the communities heart.

It would be awesome if all teams (at least neo/core/lite) signed up for neo, just to see how Moneygamer reacts. 10-20 euro in a fee would be okay. Maybe 80 % for prize money in the divison you play in and 20% to Moneygamer. I don’t think 90% would disagree on paying a small fee. But 45 euro is way too much.

For all the Lite/Core guys next year when you watch yanks come over to play in World Finals at least you can get some sense of accomplishment knowing you paid for those flights and 5* hotels.

So. ▪ 300 teams x 8 players = 2400 players. ▪ 2400 players x 20€ = 48.000€ For the 6vs6/1vs1 licenses. 😰😰😰😰😰 The value of a used 2014 Ferrari California ranges from $85,862 to $119,332, based on vehicle condition, mileage, and options. ✅

Lets create a new league. It is free for everyone. Just put me direct messages 😂

Ok without knowing anything what is going on in the background or taking a stand here are some numbers from Pro division point of view: 5500€ prize pool 300€ per team x 32 teams = 9600€ + 20€/player x 7 players (at least) x 32 = 4480€ Equals to 14080€ compared to 5500€ prize pool.

I won't comment on this form anything but shouldn't it be worth paying the prize money of the last ecl first before collecting new bigger pots? Guys have wait now couple months of prizemoneys...