Player Ability Bans - ECL '25 Season Discussion

[sopulii04]

13 minuuttia sitten, l-Furyan-l kirjoitti:

 

While I agree with the general gist of your post, I was curious about the part I bolded above.

Just for reference sake, have you tried playing with Snipers (or other "shooting" builds) that are able to raise their slapshot pow/acc up to... say 94/94? Or at the very least 90+ on each? Because we have, and we're seeing plenty of One-Tees from further out go in.

Like... at least one a game, pretty much. At the very least a lot more than what you are describing with the 2/3 One-Tee goals in 10+ games.

I think a key part with fully embracing the no-traits meta (or, at least giving it a proper chance) is realizing that you can no longer rely on having a build that is "good but not great" across the board, like the PMD, and then have attributes like passing, poke-check or shooting at around 85, expecting them to be as effective as they were with the traits on. You need to actually commit and boost the attributes you value up to 90 or over to get the proper effectiveness, sacrificing other attributes in the process.

I'm not saying you haven't tried this, my point is not to question any one individual or team.

My point is a general one:  if teams are trying to run the exact same meta as they did when they had traits, with similar builds and point distribution, then that will inevitably lead to disappointment. This is a great opportunity to branch out and really try and push what this NHL gameplay can be. That is how I am approaching it, at least.

 

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Fantastic post. No notes. 10/10.

Yeah I've tried different builds, personally rocking something like 87-88 on slap shot stats. A teammate tried 94/94, and I've seen what the typical playmaker/pmd slap shot looks like and I don't see a huge difference. The unfortunate reality is that I honestly think 75 slapshots with silver one tee is at least as good as 95 slapshots 😅 

[Mikka]

Oh yeah, one more thing about the draft channel vote(s) that get shared here from time to time.

As we can see in this thread, going against the grain / top top players’ opinion can lead to some pretty nasty stuff being said to you & getting all kinds of reactions (& DMs…)

Now combine that with an open, public vote where everyone can see what you voted for. See the problem?

Not saying that the results would necessarily be any different, but imo there’s a realistic threat of some people not daring to vote in fear of getting blacklisted, or even straight up receiving hate. This community has a lot of relatively young people, and standing up against something isn’t always the easiest thing to do. Surrendering to herd mentality without much thought, on the other hand…

 

So, without going too tin foil hat, my point is that a proper poll is an anonymous one, and I know SG has the tools for that. Other polls can have some value as conversation starters for example, but decisions shouldn’t be made based on those. In real elections, voter secrecy excists for a reason.

[xDoumi]

15 minuuttia sitten, Mikka kirjoitti:

Oh yeah, one more thing about the draft channel vote(s) that get shared here from time to time.

As we can see in this thread, going against the grain / top top players’ opinion can lead to some pretty nasty stuff being said to you & getting all kinds of reactions (& DMs…)

Now combine that with an open, public vote where everyone can see what you voted for. See the problem?

Not saying that the results would necessarily be any different, but imo there’s a realistic threat of some people not daring to vote in fear of getting blacklisted, or even straight up receiving hate. This community has a lot of relatively young people, and standing up against something isn’t always the easiest thing to do. Surrendering to herd mentality without much thought, on the other hand…

 

So, without going too tin foil hat, my point is that a proper poll is an anonymous one, and I know SG has the tools for that. Other polls can have some value as conversation starters for example, but decisions shouldn’t be made based on those. In real elections, voter secrecy excists for a reason.

Love the idea its just not the right time! We have FCL coming up! And tip for decision makers for possible future, make own poll for elite either visible or invisible

Edited Thursday at 10:45 PM by xDoumi

[Mikka]

11 minutes ago, xDoumi said:

Love the idea its just not the right time! We have FCL coming up! And tip for decision makers for possible future, make own poll for elite

I’m obiviously not saying that there should be a poll for FCL or anything, just adding my piece to the poll discussion. I prefer the bans currently so I should really be against any polls. 

Also an Elite only poll is not realistic due to the in-season relegation qualifier against Pro teams. Elite & Pro basically need to have matching rulesets. Elite/Pro and Lite/Core/Neo could work in theory if there is a big enough divide in opinions, but even that’s not ideal for teams making the jump up a division.

[xDoumi]

12 minuuttia sitten, Mikka kirjoitti:

I’m obiviously not saying that there should be a poll for FCL or anything, just adding my piece to the poll discussion. I prefer the bans currently so I should really be against any polls. 

Also an Elite only poll is not realistic due to the in-season relegation qualifier against Pro teams. Elite & Pro basically need to have matching rulesets. Elite/Pro and Lite/Core/Neo could work in theory if there is a big enough divide in opinions, but even that’s not ideal for teams making the jump up a division.

I know, i just had to mention it in cause you never know about the deciders.

I need Jesus 🙏

Edited Thursday at 11:05 PM by xDoumi

[Pawetzki]

If we really need xfactories then it should be like xfactories which helps you to shoot more accurate and harder ban like close quarter so shots dont go always through the goalie cuz without it that doesnt happen so there is somenthing broken in it and ban onetee its the most stupid factory in game cuz if you shoot with factory oneT goalie freeze without that doesnt happen so that xfactory has also some funtional problems. IF you allow those scoring is based on bugs so we cant really talk about skillbased gaming anymore when you score which would be bad reputation to even call this scene as Esports. As goalie i know what im talking about.

Edited Thursday at 11:07 PM by Pawetzki

[Lxndstrom]

Have anyone thought about if we ban all defensive playstyles but not any offensive?

And maybe that we use only silver ones, because what i think people mean when they say that without abilitys its more fun i think its because we have not any defensive playstyle you can do more plays, but if we ban all offensive abilitys too we dont see goals and most of them is somekind force to backpost

[Ollizhki]

I find it hilarious, that the vast majority of the player base ( at least publicly) complaining about the removal of xFactors are from Pro and Elite. 

They already know the game mechanics throughout and are obviously skilled enough to adjust accordingly, so i fail to see the issue here. Nor do i care to be honest. 

Now you need to actually put at least SOME thought into your build and playstyle, although i highly doubt it considering most teams would shoot from the neutral zone with their backhand, if it were the meta. So yeah, teams might go into just forcing the play, but ask yourself, who's fault is that really?

Just because you are a better player, doesn't make your opinion somehow more important. If anything, good players only benefit from this. 

Adapt and quit whining, it's (at the moment) only ONE tournament. 

 

[Pawetzki]

3 minuuttia sitten, Ollizhki kirjoitti:

I find it hilarious, that the vast majority of the player base ( at least publicly) complaining about the removal of xFactors are from Pro and Elite. 

They already know the game mechanics throughout and are obviously skilled enough to adjust accordingly, so i fail to see the issue here. Nor do i care to be honest. 

Now you need to actually put at least SOME thought into your build and playstyle, although i highly doubt it considering most teams would shoot from the neutral zone with their backhand, if it were the meta. So yeah, teams might go into just forcing the play, but ask yourself, who's fault is that really?

Just because you are a better player, doesn't make your opinion somehow more important. If anything, good players only benefit from this. 

Adapt and quit whining, it's (at the moment) only ONE tournament. 

 

Exactly pro and elite and some lower stage players know how to abuse those perks so its no good for gameplay and force play is even worse with xfactories

[Lxndstrom]

1 tunti sitten, Lxndstrom kirjoitti:

Have anyone thought about if we ban all defensive playstyles but not any offensive?

And maybe that we use only silver ones, because what i think people mean when they say that without abilitys its more fun i think its because we have not any defensive playstyle you can do more plays, but if we ban all offensive abilitys too we dont see goals and most of them is somekind force to backpost

And if we only need to speak ban all or just tipper then i think ban all

but maybe everyone can get something if we ban all defensive abilitys and use only silver offensive abilitys and not any goalie abilitys? 

[Saviinainen]

25 minuuttia sitten, Lxndstrom kirjoitti:

And if we only need to speak ban all or just tipper then i think ban all

but maybe everyone can get something if we ban all defensive abilitys and use only silver offensive abilitys and not any goalie abilitys? 

So you mean like lets give all the boosts to forwards and defenders and goalies get nothing? Personally i dont get your point with that when you are saying "everyone can get something" with that kind of solution. Lets just make scoring boosted and lets make it fun for forwards. 

Maybe we should ban all offensive abilities and use only silver defensive abilities? Then we all can get much more realistic game results and games would be tights.

I really hope like lets play ecl spring like we played ecl winter so lets ban only tipper which is totally "broken" 

Edited Friday at 01:07 AM by Saviinainen

[Lxndstrom]

10 tuntia sitten, Saviinainen kirjoitti:

So you mean like lets give all the boosts to forwards and defenders and goalies get nothing? Personally i dont get your point with that when you are saying "everyone can get something" with that kind of solution. Lets just make scoring boosted and lets make it fun for forwards. 

Maybe we should ban all offensive abilities and use only silver defensive abilities? Then we all can get much more realistic game results and games would be tights.

I really hope like lets play ecl spring like we played ecl winter so lets ban only tipper which is totally "broken" 

I am Dman myself too, but what i think that we get more creative plays if we ban all defensive abilitys but without offensive abilitys we dont get rewarded in those plays. You can defend really well without any abilitys

and truculence is more ”broken” than tipper. That ability does not belong this game ever

[SadaPoika]

The thing i enjoy the most when i´ve played without x-factors is the fact that there is no tuculence or stick em up..
Especially golden stick em up feels too automatic at times and the skill in using it isn´t there.. Yes there are bullshit pokes with it also, but the best way to use the golden stick is to just press r1 and that feels too automatic. Without abilities i´ve seen some elite defenders really struggle now, because just auto aiming with the r1 isn´t there anymore. You actually have to defend by having a good body position or having a really good active stick. Two things that require skill and iq.

13 hours ago, Lxndstrom said:

but maybe everyone can get something if we ban all defensive abilitys and use only silver offensive abilitys and not any goalie abilitys? 

I actually dont´t hate this as it doesn´t make defending too automatic and still rewards offensive plays more than now. We haven´t had yet a problem scoring without abilities and adding the silvers wouldn´t change much. We have been scoring one timers too from further out with minimum slap shot stats😮

Also a thing mentioned here before. Spamming shots close to the net when the goalie is well positioned doesn´t work anymore and you actually have to find a better angle rather than just shooting it close to the net without even thinking anything else.

Conclusion:
I would enjoy the game most without abilities or not having defensive boosts. Atleast not having golden stick em up or/and truculence would make my experience better🙂

[Vattuyy]

Last ECL I dont remember games when i have seen team losing with lot more scoring chances. Games have been very fair and most of the time better team wins because this game is very rewarding when you get scoring chances. 

 

What if abilitys get banned? I think it will automaticly make this game more RNG and you can lose games with many more scoring chances than your opponent have. We will see more of those games where worse team will just park the bus in the front of the net and try to win by counter attacks. Atm that park the bus and counter attack meta just dont work because you are getting rewarded from good offensive plays with 1T CQ, etc. 

 

In competitive gaming you should get rewarded almost every time when creating scoring chance with a lot of room in net, without certain shooting abilities you still have to hope your shot goes in even if your team has done everything 100% right 

 

Why people would want to see more RNG gameplay? Just doesnt make sense to me.

Edited Friday at 04:25 PM by Vattuyy

[Jiihooo86]

7 tuntia sitten, Vattuyy kirjoitti:

competitive gaming you should get rewarded almost every time when creating scoring chance with a lot of room in net, without certain shooting abilities you still have to hope your shot goes in even if your team has done everything 100% right 

So when goalies get something rewarding ? Yes your team can get everything right but there is still that 6th player on the ice that can make The differense also by saving that one timer or wrister. The thing that goalies hate with 1t , close quarters , and the snapshot thingy , that it takes away our chance to make the differense regarding the result. I have loved to play without perks because its MY OWN fault if im not posessioned right , and i give that 1T to go in or some weak wristshot finds the way behind my back. We goalies should get credit also when we posession ourselves right , or slide to make that last chance save with correct Timing and get shit on our backs when moving like retarted turtle on ice. This game isnt made only for 5 skaters.

Edited Friday at 11:32 PM by Jiihooo86

[Sokkelo__]

14 tuntia sitten, Jiihooo86 kirjoitti:

So when goalies get something rewarding ? Yes your team can get everything right but there is still that 6th player on the ice that can make The differense also by saving that one timer or wrister. The thing that goalies hate with 1t , close quarters , and the snapshot thingy , that it takes away our chance to make the differense regarding the result. I have loved to play without perks because its MY OWN fault if im not posessioned right , and i give that 1T to go in or some weak wristshot finds the way behind my back. We goalies should get credit also when we posession ourselves right , or slide to make that last chance save with correct Timing and get shit on our backs when moving like retarted turtle on ice. This game isnt made only for 5 skaters.

I get your point and I understand it can be sometimes frustrating to feel you can’t save some shot, but I still think that it is not about any individuals getting rewarded, it is about team getting rewarded. If your team defends poorly and leaves one timer wide open, it should go in at least something like 80% of the time (and what I have tested, without any traits it is way belov that). There is still a chance for goalie to save it, it is just a tough task as it should be and of course can’t save them all. 

in the game there are also things like suicide passes where the recieving player is going to lose the puck almost every time and can’t do anything about it, and there are shots which are given by defence and which goalies are going to allow almost every time, it is just how a competitive team play should work.

I have seen plenty of great saves throughout the year on one timers and well played situations, it just doesn’t happen too often with shooting traits. If we think about how to make this game as competitive as possible, creating great chances as a team should get rewarded.

And still, most of the shots are not imposible to save, it creates wider skill gap among goalies as well (and I’m certainly not meaning that you are bad or anything, I have seen you making those great saves also 😊).

As a skater, I don’t want to see my shots going through goalies, I just want them to go in when there is clearly a lot of room in the net. That is why I think gameplay without any shooting traits is not the way to go in competitive gaming. But that is of course my own opinion and I respect every other opinion as well and I have seen plenty of great comments here from every aspect, keep them coming 😊

Edited 22 hours ago by Sokkelo__

[Baranizer]

Cant really get what all beef is about. It seems so clear to me that community consists of many people and they should all obey the same law which cant suit everyone. And SGG wants to test trait bans on smaller tourneys so we all can get a feedback (there were a lot of people wanting it to be tested which is true) - no need to crusade on each other cause there are always different views on one matter. In the end there will be a decision and everyone will decide if it works for them just fine or they can just switch to ripmoti mode or go play other shitty game. Its that easy. 

From the Goalie perspective i can add that i personally dont give a f about what percs are used and what are not. In real hockey you cant be sure you save a shot even if you square to it and set yourself just fine. So if it trickles in - its just bad luck. There is other side of this luck - you can save crazy shots when you shouldnt do that. So why even talk about that. Perks help this mechanics to work. Goalie is not only about one person heroics its about him setting up his defence in front. (ofc Tipper is BS cause you just cant tip a slap shot from under the bar like that all the time xD)

So to underline - ban everything is really a strange decision, but gives different approach to the game for sure. More suitable thing is imo leaving only silver perks i guess. But i would leave it be as it was (still think golden stickemup is bs, esp if we remember that someone on ping 1 and someone on 50.)