Player Ability Bans - ECL '25 Season Discussion

[l-Furyan-l]

21 minuter sedan, saaggssy säger:

Lol, are you serious now, please tell me which atribute for goalie is op, and i gonna use it. there is no goalie trait what actualy matters to keep, i think if we play without abilities, game will be more fun then its right now anyway. but because there is this overpowered skaters abilities, we goalies need to atleast try to counter something.

I was mostly kidding, mirroring the words you used, haha 😊

I just disagree with you, is all. Big Tipper is the only attribute worth banning and it is not even close, IMO. 

If I were forced to add another attribute to that list, I'd be Stick 'Em Up. If you were to look at all the opposing players you face in an evening, the one trait (Silver or Gold) that would used by more than 90% of the players (defenders and forwards) it wouldn't be BT, QC, OT, TRUC or UF... It would be SEU. And that includes 3/5 players on my team, we use it too.

The amount of errant poke- and stick checks that players get away with right now is hilarious.

But still not worth banning, IMO.

Edited October 20 by l-Furyan-l

[saaggssy]

So you think some kinda stick lifting, what can maybe one procent of teams take in to overpowered advantages is more worth to ban, then abilities, what every no matter how good or bad player you are, you can easy boost up your skill and and realy easy score goals without even actual skill? its already was last year but it was not so overpowered like this year, i never saw goalie stop close quarters, if goal happens there is close quarters involved, and no matter how good goalie is there. golden one timers you stop like 1 out of 10 good timed golden one timers. If you a bit off its in no matter what, so is that realy skill? its just makin scoring so easy and no even skill based.

Edited October 20 by saaggssy

[l-Furyan-l]

1 minut sedan, saaggssy säger:

So you think some kinda stick lifting, what can maybe one procent of teams take in to overpowered advantages is more worth to ban, then abilities, what every no matter how good or bad player you are, you can easy boost up your skill and and realy easy score goals without even actual skill? its already was last year but it was not so overpowered like this year, i never saw goalie stop close quarters, if goal happens there is close quarters involved, and no matter how good goalie is there. 

Agree to disagree 🤝

[Baranizer]

20 часов назад, saaggssy сказал:

So you think some kinda stick lifting, what can maybe one procent of teams take in to overpowered advantages is more worth to ban, then abilities, what every no matter how good or bad player you are, you can easy boost up your skill and and realy easy score goals without even actual skill? its already was last year but it was not so overpowered like this year, i never saw goalie stop close quarters, if goal happens there is close quarters involved, and no matter how good goalie is there. golden one timers you stop like 1 out of 10 good timed golden one timers. If you a bit off its in no matter what, so is that realy skill? its just makin scoring so easy and no even skill based.

Cmon man) as a goalie you have to find ways to stop shots no matter what. From goalie perspective Tippers are the most fearsome thing. It was previously mentioned that it could be stopped before with stick lift at least, but now guy can tip no matter what. Also you say you can defend it by crowding the guy and then complain about one tee, which can be covered with the same approach really, but the thing is - tipper can’t be really stopped with that and also with good goalie positioning. 

also, main thing about tipper is that it encourage teams to play shitty hockey - that’s the problem mainly. 

and CQ is really not a thing if you position good. I dare you - Lxndstrom for example, will penetrate you on close up without this perk anyway)))) that’s just skill not perks. 

And also I agree that stick em up is the new go to perk, which also kills hitting, making everyone go for the vicious poke checks all the time. But even this is not that lame as abusing tipper.

and ofc every C will use it if it would be legit. Cause it’s an option you can’t go by just because you feel yourself as an honorable knight in shiny armor 😂 at the end of the day - you have to use the build which will give you the best chance to win.

 

Edited October 21 by Baranizer

[Kenu]

After further deliberation and seeing the unanimous motion for the ban of the Big Tipper ability, the League Administration has decided to ban Big Tipper (both Gold and Silver) from the ECL ’25: Winter season. The change will take effect in the Warmup Season from Sunday, October 27th and will also apply to the ECL Qualifiers.

It’s been great to see how the discussion around different abilities has really taken off. We’re getting a lot of different perspectives, many of them well-reasoned. We’ve also seen some interesting concepts for limiting how different builds and abilities can be used on a team basis, with the goal of changing the approach to classes and abilities, and potentially making broadcasts more engaging. I’d love to hear more thoughts on this idea and how people feel about it. My biggest concern is that, while many experienced players think it’s a brilliant concept, it might raise the barrier to entry for new teams and players who are already trying to grasp the rules and restrictions. And while one might suggest to only implement it at a higher level, this would probably create issues when teams move to a higher level and are not used to these restrictions.

Let’s keep the conversation going!

Edited October 22 by Kenu
Edit: Added the clarification that the ban applies to both versions of Big Tipper.

[Janikka]

17 minuuttia sitten, Kenu kirjoitti:

After further deliberation and seeing the unanimous motion for the ban of the Big Tipper ability, the League Administration has decided to ban Big Tipper from the ECL ’25: Winter season. The change will take effect in the Warmup Season from Sunday, October 27th and will also apply to the ECL Qualifiers.

It’s been great to see how the discussion around different abilities has really taken off. We’re getting a lot of different perspectives, many of them well-reasoned. We’ve also seen some interesting concepts for limiting how different builds and abilities can be used on a team basis, with the goal of changing the approach to classes and abilities, and potentially making broadcasts more engaging. I’d love to hear more thoughts on this idea and how people feel about it. My biggest concern is that, while many experienced players think it’s a brilliant concept, it might raise the barrier to entry for new teams and players who are already trying to grasp the rules and restrictions. And while one might suggest to only implement it at a higher level, this would probably create issues when teams move to a higher level and are not used to these restrictions.

Let’s keep the conversation going!

Just to be clear, I take it this means both the silver and gold versions? You didn't specify, which would refer to a comprehensive ban of the trait, but just making sure.

[Kenu]

34 minutes ago, Janikka said:

Just to be clear, I take it this means both the silver and gold versions? You didn't specify, which would refer to a comprehensive ban of the trait, but just making sure.

Yes, good point there Jani. All versions of Big Tipper.

[Lxndstrom]

1 tunti sitten, Kenu kirjoitti:

After further deliberation and seeing the unanimous motion for the ban of the Big Tipper ability, the League Administration has decided to ban Big Tipper (both Gold and Silver) from the ECL ’25: Winter season. The change will take effect in the Warmup Season from Sunday, October 27th and will also apply to the ECL Qualifiers.

It’s been great to see how the discussion around different abilities has really taken off. We’re getting a lot of different perspectives, many of them well-reasoned. We’ve also seen some interesting concepts for limiting how different builds and abilities can be used on a team basis, with the goal of changing the approach to classes and abilities, and potentially making broadcasts more engaging. I’d love to hear more thoughts on this idea and how people feel about it. My biggest concern is that, while many experienced players think it’s a brilliant concept, it might raise the barrier to entry for new teams and players who are already trying to grasp the rules and restrictions. And while one might suggest to only implement it at a higher level, this would probably create issues when teams move to a higher level and are not used to these restrictions.

Let’s keep the conversation going!

Did you forget truculence??!!

[markalla2]

1 tunti sitten, Kenu kirjoitti:

After further deliberation and seeing the unanimous motion for the ban of the Big Tipper ability, the League Administration has decided to ban Big Tipper (both Gold and Silver) from the ECL ’25: Winter season. The change will take effect in the Warmup Season from Sunday, October 27th and will also apply to the ECL Qualifiers.

It’s been great to see how the discussion around different abilities has really taken off. We’re getting a lot of different perspectives, many of them well-reasoned. We’ve also seen some interesting concepts for limiting how different builds and abilities can be used on a team basis, with the goal of changing the approach to classes and abilities, and potentially making broadcasts more engaging. I’d love to hear more thoughts on this idea and how people feel about it. My biggest concern is that, while many experienced players think it’s a brilliant concept, it might raise the barrier to entry for new teams and players who are already trying to grasp the rules and restrictions. And while one might suggest to only implement it at a higher level, this would probably create issues when teams move to a higher level and are not used to these restrictions.

Let’s keep the conversation going!

If you decide to restrict builds on a team basis, please don't test it mid-cycle of the competitive season. IMO would be test to try it in a summer league next year or early NHL26. Now it's too late. But as you said it's reeeeally hard to implement to the whole ECL structure.

[Kenu]

1 hour ago, Lxndstrom said:

Did you forget truculence??!!

There hasn't really been a comprehensive conversation around that where we've seen a strong consensus where the majority feels like banning truculence is the right call. At least to me it seems like there's people on both sides of the fence on that. I don't say that to mitigate anyone's opinion or to insinuate that you'd be wrong, but if you read the conversation in this thread, you can see that Big Tipper was clearly the one thing everyone seems to agree on. 

I know there have been unofficial votes organized where several abilities were bundled together, including big tipper, but while our goal is not to slowly ban everything one by one, it is important to discuss the problems we have with each ability on an individual basis in order to avoid the type of bias where you buy one ban and get two for free. I believe we ourselves did something of a bundle decision last season with stronger support for 2/3 of the banned abilities and were rightfully criticized at the time for jumping to conclusions on the 3rd one.

TL;DR: Keep talking about truculence if you feel strongly about it, and explain what makes you dislike it (if you haven't already).

[antoniomannen004]

ban truculence, it is as annoying/op and non skill based as big tipper ty

[I_Alex28_I]

Don't ban it. Its buffed anyways. Ofc meta straightline builds with 72kg 94 speed dont like getting ran over but hitting is a part of hockey. 

Talking about banning non skill based abilities. How is any perk like close quarters, one tee and so on skill based?

[Lemonzie]

BAN TRUCULENCE

Player get hitted twice in a short period of time is enough to either injure your player or take a very long time to get up from the ice. Power of the truculence is OP. Hits are often worth a penalty but of course this wonderful game does not recognize them as a penalty. This makes that situation unfair, unreal and also ruins the game. We have had matches where the opponent had almost 60 hits and they got only 1-2 penalties. Really realistic, isn't it?

EA doesnt want to fix bugs or other unrealistic things in the game. If we have possibility to fix them by ban these abilities and make this game little bit better. Then we should do this immediately.

One good option would be to ban all abilities and also make a rule that forward need to play with forward builds and defenders need to play with defender builds. After this there is no need for further discussion.

[Lemonzie]

15 minuuttia sitten, I_Alex28_I kirjoitti:

Don't ban it. Its buffed anyways. Ofc meta straightline builds with 72kg 94 speed dont like getting ran over but hitting is a part of hockey.

This is the opposite. 94speed 170cm 72kg builds can easily run over 185cm 88kg player with truculence. They dont like it.

I agree that hitting is a part of hockey but when there is 50 hits in a game and 0 penalties, then there is some kind of problem in the game and if we can, then we need do something to this problem.

EDIT: of course after the ban there will be hits in the game too but they will not be as effective and therefore will not affect the game in the same way like now.

Edited October 22 by Lemonzie
lisäys

[Clumpyindiana79]

2 timmar sedan, Kenu säger:

After further deliberation and seeing the unanimous motion for the ban of the Big Tipper ability, the League Administration has decided to ban Big Tipper (both Gold and Silver) from the ECL ’25: Winter season. The change will take effect in the Warmup Season from Sunday, October 27th and will also apply to the ECL Qualifiers.

It’s been great to see how the discussion around different abilities has really taken off. We’re getting a lot of different perspectives, many of them well-reasoned. We’ve also seen some interesting concepts for limiting how different builds and abilities can be used on a team basis, with the goal of changing the approach to classes and abilities, and potentially making broadcasts more engaging. I’d love to hear more thoughts on this idea and how people feel about it. My biggest concern is that, while many experienced players think it’s a brilliant concept, it might raise the barrier to entry for new teams and players who are already trying to grasp the rules and restrictions. And while one might suggest to only implement it at a higher level, this would probably create issues when teams move to a higher level and are not used to these restrictions.

Let’s keep the conversation going!

Is it banned in all divisions or can u still use all abilities in neo ?

[I_Alex28_I]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Lemonzie:

This is the opposite. 94speed 170cm 72kg builds can easily run over 185cm 88kg player with truculence. They dont like it.

I agree that hitting is a part of hockey but when there is 50 hits in a game and 0 penalties, then there is some kind of problem in the game and if we can, then we need do something to this problem.

EDIT: of course after the ban there will be hits in the game too but they will not be as effective and therefore will not affect the game in the same way like now.

I get that. But you can counter it with Reverse Hits. Especially with bigger builds.

[kungenkirwa]

Truculence energy drain is still the same as NHL23 & 24, thats the biggest issue with trucu, you bump player,  really nothing happened and another player lose lot of energy.

If/when all 10 on the ice use trucu the gameplay will be so bad

[Snus97_]

26 minuter sedan, I_Alex28_I säger:

Don't ban it. Its buffed anyways. Ofc meta straightline builds with 72kg 94 speed dont like getting ran over but hitting is a part of hockey. 

Talking about banning non skill based abilities. How is any perk like close quarters, one tee and so on skill based?

Is loosing all your energy and lay down on the ice after every hit for some seconds a part of hockey?

[Poistin]

17 minuuttia sitten, I_Alex28_I kirjoitti:

I get that. But you can counter it with Reverse Hits. Especially with bigger builds.

when u dont have puck u cant use reverse

[I_Alex28_I]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Snus97_:

Is loosing all your energy and lay down on the ice after every hit for some seconds a part of hockey?

Thats a bit dramatic mate. Running down the boards for 60min straight isnt also. The best Players can avoid getting hit most of the time anyways.

[Lemonzie]

22 minuuttia sitten, I_Alex28_I kirjoitti:

I get that. But you can counter it with Reverse Hits. Especially with bigger builds.

Yes with the puck but if the hit comes after you pass the puck.
And its very difficult to dodge because hit is too effective. Just a little touch is enough..

Edited October 22 by Lemonzie
lisäys

[Saviinainen]

Imo there is no need to ban truculence. Like alex said its possible to counter it with reverse hits. So why people are not doing it? Is it just easier to cry when you are losing stamina?

 

At the beginning of NHL25 when nearly no one was using trucu (because for some reason people were thinking that is going to be banned without testing it, even its whole new game than NHL24) there has already been those slow getting up animations in game. I mean if you had small amount of stamina left and you got hit, that took lot of time to get up, and that was even worse when pressure was activated.

 

Game speed in overall has been much better than last years, its just not only that "straightline hana and force hockey" anymore. And trucu is not affecting that at all (making it slower like i gave example earlier about getting up animations etc)

 

And what becomes trucu its nearly not doing anything when you do bumps, with silver at least, most of the time my player is still like slipped away from opponent when trying to bump and opponent just keeping skating with the puck (im using kinda little build atm so i dont know what would be situation if i would use like bigger build with trucu)

 

Trucu has been truly nerfed compared to last year so please not ban it, even stick em up is much more OP than trucu. And yeah although im not playing in elite im still playing this game a lot and i personally know the best how i have felt about these things 😊

[pappeen-]

29 minuter sedan, kungenkirwa säger:

Truculence energy drain is still the same as NHL23 & 24, thats the biggest issue with trucu, you bump player,  really nothing happened and another player lose lot of energy.

If/when all 10 on the ice use trucu the gameplay will be so bad

1000% agree with this

[Poistin]

7 minuuttia sitten, Saviinainen kirjoitti:

Imo there is no need to ban truculence. Like alex said its possible to counter it with reverse hits. So why people are not doing it? Is it just easier to cry when you are losing stamina?

 

At the beginning of NHL25 when nearly no one was using trucu (because for some reason people were thinking that is going to be banned without testing it, even its whole new game than NHL24) there has already been those slow getting up animations in game. I mean if you had small amount of stamina left and you got hit, that took lot of time to get up, and that was even worse when pressure was activated.

 

Game speed in overall has been much better than last years, its just not only that "straightline hana and force hockey" anymore. And trucu is not affecting that at all (making it slower like i gave example earlier about getting up animations etc)

 

And what becomes trucu its nearly not doing anything when you do bumps, with silver at least, most of the time my player is still like slipped away from opponent when trying to bump and opponent just keeping skating with the puck (im using kinda little build atm so i dont know what would be situation if i would use like bigger build with trucu)

 

Trucu has been truly nerfed compared to last year so please not ban it, even stick em up is much more OP than trucu. And yeah although im not playing in elite im still playing this game a lot and i personally know the best how i have felt about these things 😊

Really late hits with truculence without penalty are the issue, if u ask me. Because u can't really do anything.

[Saviinainen]

6 minuuttia sitten, Poistin kirjoitti:

Really late hits with truculence without penalty are the issue, if u ask me. Because u can't really do anything.

Penalties in overall in this game are pretty messed up. There is really much situations where players are able to hook opponent and there is not coming penalty or then you are getting penalty about thing you didnt even do. And yeah i know this is games (EA's) fault, not any trait or x-factor but that was just example. Like i earlier wrote when we were talking about tipper etc there is always things which can be compared to each other and people can argue with those about goalie, defender and forward point of view. Best option imo is that like ban everything or ban nothing because everything has some kind of broken mechanics. But now when sportsgamer decided to ban tipper, i am really fine with that, because it caused to break gameplay