Mikka

January 19, 2022

19 minutes ago, Wpaanane said:

Mentioning my vacation but you are not mentioning any of our 5 other players… cmon mikka

Your whole team has had a good season so far so yeah I agree, I could’ve definitely picked some other players too. I tried to keep it somewhat concise though, and only pick max a couple of names that stand out instead of listing a ton of people just for the sake of listing.

The time aspect does play into it as well, an article like this has to be written quite quickly so that it doesn’t become old & useless information, there’s not much time to perfect the craft so even some kind of obvious things may get left out due to that. Thank’s for the feedback though

August 19, 2021

13 minutes ago, Soijapoika said:

Can PS5 owners have both versions downloaded or do they always have to uninstall the other version to play the other?

It's possible for other games with two versions, so yeah it should be possible as it's a Sony/Playstation feature. By clicking the "..." icon next to "start game" you can flick between the PS5 and PS4 versions

July 15, 2021

On 7/12/2021 at 5:03 PM, svetidaje said:

Lets go! Just one little correction, Strumpan played in the winning team of ECL 6 pro division. But thats history

Thanks, totally forgot about Monarchs Gz on the final spot!

July 1, 2021

On 6/28/2021 at 2:05 PM, Virtual_Saku said:

Spartiates 4-3 🤩😘

so close

April 13, 2021

Spamming too much on here but btw, the captaincy/team ownership issue that some have mentioned... I didn't comment it on earlier because I thought that it's just too hard of an issue to be tackling here, but guess what I've realised Due to this great new qualifier system that we have in place, there is imo zero grounds to keep it in the rules that a captain can change every single player on the roster but himself and keep the spot. I mean now if the new roster is good enough, they'll still get into Pro. I don't think there's ever been a case like that in Elite because of, well, reasons. This would in my opinion just further level the playing field and back the base idea behind the promo/rele reform

April 13, 2021

26 minutes ago, vvlampela said:

Classic, so if you don’t have anything smart to say after someone says something that doesn’t make you happy, you just start shooting random bs which is not even related to this convo aight

oh ye, and good luck playing in the same division with your academy😘

Hey now, they suggested that svamp's current team should've been relegated straight to lite after last season without giving them a chance in the qualifier!11!!1!1!! That would've been quite unfortunate wouldn't it 🤠

April 13, 2021

4 minutes ago, J-Foppa said:

You might disagree and I might have missed your point as to why you think changing format mid-season is a good thing, but I dont see it?

NG did announce there was gonna be a change to promotional system for ECL12. Thats not the same as postponing qualification 3 months and allowing roster moves, or new teams in qualification. Or that they will seed Lite teams (regardless of position) higher than Pro teams (except then they change it back again, so now Pro teams are seeded higher in the actual qualification....which makes no sense if you're supposed to use the same logic).

It creates a bunch of problems. Unfair competition being a major one. The othe major one is forcing teams who want to keep their spot to play during summer vacation. If they released the change after we would have fair competition and could all enjoy the beach for summer NG would have 8-9 more months to figure out the best possible solution for a new league structure. Maybe collecting feedback from community etc.

I don't see changing anything mid-season as a good thing, but I don't see that anything was changed mid-season either. For teams that finished 13-16 in Pro, the only thing that changed compared to the old system was that they get more time to train and improve their roster & morale before having to prove to be worthy of their Pro spots. For the 12th place team, "oh fuck, we have an extra mini-tourney to play before next season to prove that we're still good enough to play in Pro", which obiviously is a bit of an unpleasant surprise but I mean they weren't confirmed to finish 12th when this was announced, so they could've still played better and finished higher to avoid all this. For Lite teams, the only one that lost something is 4th for having to play in the qualifiers, but again they knew about this before their season ended. ~~And 5-8th for not being the first teams promoted in case of an empty Pro spot due to disbanding teams~~ (guess not :D). The remaining Lite & Wildcard teams lost absolutely nothing, but instead gained an opportunity to first of all get promoted even if zero Pro teams would disband, and secondly also the chance to prove their skills instead of the opinion-based system that was previously in use.

So in my opinion the changes were not drastic enough that everyone should be losing their minds on when it was announced, yeah it would've been good to announce it before the season but it's not like it was after the season and the ones affected had zero ways to affect their situation. Everyone (well, except the 5 promoted lite teams) was given the chance to prove themselves, even the 15th & 16th that were originally announced to be relegated without qualifiers straight to Lite. Now if people disagree with the whole system, that's another topic that I've also given my comments on earlier.

The bolded part and onwards, I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say, unless you're just making your stance clearer on how this should've gone in your opinion? The bolded parts in the final paragraph I'd ask to elaborate but I'm not sure I have the energy & willingness to keep on arguing here, but if you have the time then please do, I want to understand your viewpoint. The seeding I've also commented on earlier, I don't think either that it makes any sense to now suddenly rank Pro teams higher if it was decided before that they should be lower than Lite (unless the thought process is lite top8 > pro bottom 8 > rest of lite in which case I'll agree to disagree with NG on that & ask if these kind of thought processes behind changes could be communicated through the articles in the future).

April 13, 2021

Quote

You can see the team in action in the Pro division this upcoming ECL season and with that, the Spartiates x MCES become the first French squad to play at that level.

We can't forget the beloved Hawks Hockey Club ❤️ Gz on the signing tho, nice to see not only more and more orgs but also more and more teams south of Malmö climbing up the ladders, no matter the annoyance over the servers

April 13, 2021

1 hour ago, J-Foppa said:

(1) I cant speak for others but I don't believe people think this was a hasty decision??? Quite the opposite considering the complexity of the format.

(2) Their timing is completely off. Either you make the deadline before a tournament start or you postpone it until after the tournament. The complaint lies in changing the format for an ongoing tournament. No messege in a chatbox about potential future changes remedies that (chatbox is not an official channel for communication if Im correct?)

Im sure NHLGamer faces challenges I do not comprehend, but as any organisation in the world hosting tournaments, there will be challenges to overcome. It's not that we are complaining they didnt do something in time. if that was the case, then people could argue their work is overloaded. We are complaining they did something when they should have waited.

(1) Oh well then I misintrepreted you so sorry about that, that's just the feeling I got from the first part I bolded in your comment that I quoted. My comment wasn't supposed to be as directed to you as it seems like, just wanted it to be stated aloud that they put a lot of time into this no matter what it looks like.

(2) I understand your point here about not changing things midway through a season, although I do disagree. Ideally yeah I'd like to have had all the info be released before the season start, but in my opinion that's not absolutely crucial if we at least know that something is going to be changed and at least vaguely what that something is. Here's a quote from an article titled The ECL 11 rulebook update is here!, posted November 19, 2020 (two days after Lite and a day after Neo had started, before Pro & Elite started):

Quote

Here's a snapshot of some of the major adjustments / additions compared to ECL 10:

Added rule 2.6, the player card name must match a player’s in-game name

Updated rule 3.2, team signup requirements (specifically that a Neo signup must have 8 players on the team)

Added rule 11.2, server selection in challenge games

Added rule 11.7.1, player customisation (specifically CHEL gear)

Added rule 13.1.7, Elite players and the use of their IRL name in-game

Updated rule 10.7.1, specifying that teams must stick to the home/away split as dictated by NHLGamer

Finally, there will be a further update coming soon to the rulebook (as well as an article to help explain the rationale) concerned with the promotion structure from ECL 11 to ECL 12. Please stay tuned!

Now, I did bold that section myself, originally it was just an easily missable ending of an article that I wouldn't assume too many were interested in. This should've been emphasized more (at least be bolded or something), but that's an official channel for communication & as I said Kenu even posted related info about this in the chatbox, which while not being an official information channel is one that I think more people might actually read. So in my opinion, this change was communicated to everyone with minimum time and details necessary so that this isn't a farce. It wasn't a perfect or even a good execution, but imo it was enough. I do see though why you and others who have actually been affected by this may think otherwise than someone who wasn't, and I do agree that ideally you'd like all the info to be out before the season start.

I do think that at that point maybe NG should've just posted an article that no-one would've understood due to its complexity but had all the info in it, and then come out with the simplified release when that's ready. That way the info would've at least been out there from the get-go. Or relased the basic things first (maybe a bit like Janikka suggested), like how many teams are going to be affected and what's the basic idea behind it, I mean the actual qualifier format is info that wouldn't have had any bearing to anyone at that point in time.

April 13, 2021

21 hours ago, Kenu said:

Thanks for this @Mikka.

For clarity, the below discussion concerns ECL 13 - not the upcoming season.

Also, the below are my own interpretations that have not been verified and represent only my personal thoughts.

My interpretation of the groups would be as follows, with the 12th Pro teams being the ones not to have other Pro teams in the groups.

Thus the 13th placed team would indeed face another Pro-team, right? Or am I misinterpreting you?

The hypothetical groups you had in a quote are correct using the adjusted seedings being used for ECL 12 qualifiers, but in the original article Pro teams are seeded below the Lite teams and above Core. So I can only assume that the current, adjusted seedings (which I tbh didn't notice b4 ) are only temporary and due to the process of promoting these 5 Lite teams. From the original reform article:

Quote

The twenty teams will be split into four groups of five based on the following seeding:

Lite playoff team (4th)

Lite playoff team (5th)

Lite playoff team (6th)

Lite playoff team (7th)

Lite playoff team (8th)

Lite playoff team (9th)

Pro relegation team (12th)

Pro relegation team (12th)

Pro relegation team (13th)

Pro relegation team (13th)

Pro relegation team (14th)

Pro relegation team (14th)

Core playoff team (1st)

Core playoff team (2nd)

Core playoff team (3rd)

Core playoff team (4th)

Wildcard

Wildcard

Wildcard

Wildcard

So I'd assume this is the system that's going to be used starting from next season with the Core teams coming in and everything. With these seedings, the groups would look like:

Quote

ECL 13 hypothetical Pro Qualifier groups based on current structure:

Group 1

#1 Lite 4th

#8 Pro 12th

#12 Pro 14th

#16 Core 4th

#20 WILDCARD

Group 2

#2 Lite 5th

#7 Pro 12th

#11 Pro 14th

#15 Core 3rd

#19 WILDCARD

Group 3

#3 Lite 6th

#6 Lite 9th

#10 Pro 13th

#14 Core 2nd

#18 WILDCARD

Group 4

#4 Lite 7th

#5 Lite 8th

#9 Pro 13th

#13 Core 1st

#17 WILDCARD

Just my personal opinion but Group 3 & 4 are the ones I'd want to be in. The groups you posted looked good, so maybe just seeding Pro above Lite would solve the problem.

5 hours ago, eliekamel87 said:

This is just your (and a small group of people compared to how many players there is) opinion.

@FINSeRe@Pontinho 70 "likes" is compared to 7-8 teams out of 300, the rest I'm assuming accepts the new structure and move on with their life.

What i am trying to say is that we don't know if NG thinks this is a bad decision or not. We should respect them enough to give them time to analyze the feedback, discuss this and if necessary adjust next season. If you've ever been in a position where you have to make choices that affects thousands of people in a good or bad way, you know its not easy - at least they respect the feedback but they can't just change everything in a heartbeat cause a group of people think it's not 100% perfect.

Sure, 5 out of 300 teams got a "free ticket" and i understand that sucks for the ones that didn't or the ones who didn't or has to qualify but this is e-sport, stuff like this is not rare. They shouldn't change anything now so let us respect their decision, be thankful that we have NG and just play the d*mn game.

This is a never-ending discussion, at least until the season starts and everyone forgets about it.

I agree with the bolded part, think it's a bit too late for immediate changes. As for the non-bolded part though: My only association to anything regarding the qualifiers is playing like one tourney/league with like one guy in a few of the teams, but as far as I'm aware there is not a single player in the qualifiers that I keep in touch with regularly. Looking at the people who've liked my first comment, I see a lot of people that don't have their horses in the race either. I also don't see more than a few players per team in there, so I'd say that there's representation from a pretty wide spectrum of teams. Most of the comments here are from people that are directly affected, but hitting a like on a comment is a lot easier to do than spending hours on writing about things that don't even affect oneself (yea it's me I'm the oneself hello).

11 hours ago, J-Foppa said:

We know they work hard for little or no pay. We appreciate it and therefore so many have stayed since ECL1 Actually because of the hard work of @Kenu everyone at Consolehockey moved to NHLGamer in the first place.

But sometimes people make bad decisions, and in this case the timing issue is caused by their own actions. They decided to make the change mid-season. If they had just waited a few weeks, they would have until October/November to figure out the format for coming tournaments.
AND bonus: keep the ECL fair. Which means; not forcing teams to wait months and allowing teams to recruit players, or even allowing new teams who did not participate in ECL11 regular season to qualify.

Now they may argue that a change was needed because of the increase in players and teams. Fair enough. But ECL has increased with every season if I’m correct? This had to be foreseeable and expected. They just had to make the change in between seasons.

I welcome anyone to argue ECL11 + qualification is a fair competition.

Don’t wait to fix this. Do it now.

I get how these changes seem drastic and so sudden to most people, but these things are not done over just a few days or weeks. Even from public sources (Kenu's chatbox messages) there was info that there's going to be some changes to the promotion system at least from season start. There was messages about "please hold on, we're trying to make it somewhat digestible", "next week", "soon". The promotion/relegation section in the rulebook was blacked out too and I think there was some kind of a notice about an announcement coming. And we all know how Kenu/NG informs us about things basically only when they're done, so this has been long coming. From what I've heard, NG has felt that there needs to be proper notice given before the season about a big reform like this so that people are not blindsided. That's obiviously not what happened here even if it was the plan and I do agree announcing this mid-season was NG shooting themselves in the foot, but as far as I'm aware this is exactly what NG wanted to avoid but for some reason just wasn't able to. Let's not think this whole reform was half-assedly assembled during a weekend at NG's beautiful sauna headquarters, they've put a lot of time into this.

2 hours ago, Janikka said:

It must be very challenging to reconcile all these various factors that go into decisions like these when you're transitioning from a four-tier system into a five-tier one. That said, I think there is a lesson for the staff (who I understand to be dedicated, passionate, and working hard to give us all the best ECL experience possible) to be learned from these announcements. They have been well-written so I'm not criticizing that, but they have included so much to take in that it can get confusing. The puzzle is so large that putting it together without missing any pieces can be difficult. The staff obviously knows all that stuff before the announcements, and presenting it in an easily digestible manner to the rest of us is something that I feel could be improved.

It is tricky for sure, but I think a potential approach would be to prioritize the most pertinent information, perhaps even making separate announcements published some time apart, and to more strongly differentiate the various bits of information via logical categorization. This would help people build a coherent overview of the changes in their minds. Realistically, long detailed explanations will not engage most people's steadfast attention. This leads to some of the evident confusion and misunderstanding where some things come as a surprise to some people despite having already been presented.

After all that I will add that my message mainly concerns the vast announcement during ECL 11 as this new one on its own is quite effective.

I agree there's still work to be done to make these things more simpliefied and easy to understand, but judging from Kenu's chatbox messages trying to do that as good as possible is what got us into this mess (about the late announcement) in the end That obiviously shouldn't happen but it did, even if it unintentionally, so I guess that's an opportunity for NG for further improvement.

April 12, 2021

1 hour ago, Bjono said:

What about the wildcards then? Have a club for a week and play the same qualification as 12th seed in PRO.
is that unfair?

promote the teams that do a good season instead of holding on to the ones who didnt made it. Its just the open spots. And then we still have the qualification.

As far as I see, this whole qualifier-thing was created to ensure that the divisions are as tight and competitive as possible, as in so that the best eligible teams will get into Pro((&Lite)). Blindly promoting the best Lite playoff teams from the previous season doesn't in my opinion only cancel out the good elements this system has brought, but actually outweights them and makes this worse than the one we had before. If a team belongs in Pro, they can surely get a top 7 placement in a qualifier consisting of bottom Pro, almost-top Lite (& top Core) and these week old new teams, no? Getting to top 8 in Lite isn't imo enough proof that a team is better than a 12th ranked Pro team. They could be though, and that's why there's these qualifiers where they can prove themselves, isn't that just great I get it you're happy you got a free ride through the quals cuz rules are rules n shit but I'd maybe let the next season do the talking if I were in your position, gz & gl, see you in Pro.

50 minutes ago, MaciPapi said:

Kiitos @Mikka

I just edited my comment by adding the word "Pro" in one of the sentences now. I just supposed that the Pro teams where higher seeded, so I wasn't accurate enough, my bad, and good point ✌

Np, although I don't agree with you on this (my comment from yesterday, just let them battle it out imo)

Also I'm not sure anything can be done about ECL 12 anymore, just giving improvement suggestions for the future at this point

April 12, 2021

1 hour ago, MaciPapi said:

B. If 25 team Qualifier is to big and take too long time. Let the highest seeded teams from the Qualifiers get those open Pro spots and replace them in the Qualifiers with the 5 Lite teams. This would feel more fair and you'd have time until next ECL to overhaul these Qualifer rules and it's flow.

With how the qualifiers have been seeded, those 5 teams would be the top 5 seeded teams in the qualifiers

From the original structure update article:

Quote

Lite playoff team (4th)

Lite playoff team (5th)

Lite playoff team (6th)

Lite playoff team (7th)

Lite playoff team (8th)

Lite playoff team (9th)

Pro relegation team (12th)

Pro relegation team (12th)

Pro relegation team (13th)

Pro relegation team (13th)

Pro relegation team (14th)

Pro relegation team (14th)

Pro relegation team (15th)

Pro relegation team (15th)

Pro relegation team (16th)

Pro relegation team (16th)

Wildcard

Wildcard

Wildcard

Wildcard

Lite teams being higher seeded than the Pro teams also means that at least I, personally, would in the "real" qualifier format prefer to be the 13th rank in Pro instead of 12th. "Why is that?", you may ask. Well, in the format that's going to be in use starting next season, the only difference to the seedings I posted above is that Pro bottom4 will be directly replaced with top4 of core. --> the 12th and 14th placed Pro teams will be in the same group with each other, meanwhile the 13th place teams will be the lone Pro teams in their groups, as seen below.

I haven't had enough sleep to think about how this could be solved or even if I'm the only one thinking like this, but I'll just drop this here. I thought I commented about this on the original article but it appears I didn't, so sorry for the late feedback

Also I don't personally get the complaints about how this was announced mid-season, I mean I'd like to think that everyone wants to achieve the highest finish possible no matter what, so I don't see how an earlier heads-up would've solved anything. I do understand that the teams affected might feel upset about getting this unpleasant surprise so late, but be honest if you would've finished higher due to the fear of a relegation battle instead of the hunger to get into the playoffs, you're doing something wrong.

April 11, 2021

If this

Quote

Perhaps for next season all (except for auto-promoted) spots should be given out through the qualifiers rather than moving teams before them(?).

means preventing this:

Quote

Based on that logic, to fill the available spots after sign-ups, the following ECL 11 Lite teams have gained direct promotion to ECL 12 Pro:

Grenoble BDL Esport

Sjukstugan

BoxinElite

Sinister

PENTA (previously ECDC Memmingen eSports)

then yeah, I agree 10000%. (For example) Pro Group 1 12th place team SSK was 4 points from a playoff spot, and they are going to have to go through qualifiers when PENTA (highest seed eliminated in Lite top16 so 9th I guess) gets to go straight to Pro. I kinda like the idea that even the 12th place team in Pro has to qualify, but imo in the case of extra spots you should just allocate those to the qualifiers so that the best teams play in Pro. Those five that now got instant promotion might just be the top5 teams in the qualifiers and be top5 in Pro next year, hell do I know, but imo they shouldn't take a priority over teams that weren't too far off from Pro playoffs. --> just let everyone prove themselves in the qualifiers, that's the primary idea behind this new system isn't it? If there's extra spots, then great, more (qualifier) teams have the chance to get promoted!

January 7, 2021

Quote

From this point on, prior to every ECL season there will be a 20-team qualifier. This qualifier will be used to decide which teams are relegated, and which teams are promoted into Pro.

Quote

Additionally, to prevent teams from taking advantage of the staggered divisional start time that we have instituted for ECL, specifically recruiting players to bolster your chances in the qualifier that have no intention of remaining in the team beyond that, we have decided to enforce a soft roster lock post qualifier play. What this means in practice is that if a former Elite player wants to participate in a qualifier for a Pro or Lite team, then they will be locked into that division for four weeks (starting from the first game played in Elite that season). If a former Pro player wishes to do the same, then they will be locked into the division for 2 weeks (starting from the first game played in Pro that season).

Judging from these, I assume the qualifier is to be played just before the start of next season instead of immediately after the current one has ended like in the old system? So the qualifying teams will have the whole lengthy offseason to train and make personnel changes, so concerns like the one I quoted below should be irrelevant, right?

On 12/29/2020 at 8:46 PM, Keuschemisch said:

Furthermore a occuring problem is that a Pro Team that finishes 14-12 has a few weeks without a league Game and needs to compete immediately against Teams from different Leagues which are freshly out of the Playoffs and in better shape & rhythm.

December 29, 2020

Really like that teams who could previously survive for multiple seasons in Pro due to the relegation system will now have to battle for their spots (and that the wildcard teams can play their way into pro) max 10 teams promoted/relegated sounds like a lot in a 32 team division but I think it’s going to be really good for the competitiveness of the scene and balancing out the divisions, (almost) no one’s gonna be safe and the best will be on top

May 11, 2020

Young hiddengems to watch: @John Phouni

January 19, 2020

cama young superstars 😍

January 18, 2020

@Hazard-laser

January 8, 2020

PCJP and tuzio changed nationality?

November 21, 2019

Quote

Last Period

Same lineup as in ECL 8. Team plays a very defensive game as they had run of twelve games in ECL 8 with only three goals against combined and they had 7-2-3 record in those games. @buzee_ is one of the best goaltenders in Lite. In ECL 8 they lost in the second round to Western Express in five games after finishing second in their regular season group.

Wow, must be a world record losing 5 games when only conceding 3

September 17, 2019

Wayyyy too late, no point in starting SC in August imo

July 28, 2019

1111

June 28, 2019

Sooo SC is cancelled?

May 6, 2019

6 hours ago, Virtual_Saku said:

Is there any official thread to use to annonce the official rosters moves?

April 26, 2019

On 4/25/2019 at 12:34 AM, vizka13 said:

When does the signup period end?

The season starts on a Monday so signups should end on the previous Friday (3rd of May), considering previous tournament signup periods

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