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Another thing I would like to add is I don't get the love for the longevity of teams. Sure, I guess it has a certain romantic aspect to it, but players create new teams to up their competitiveness, and to leave teams with bad chemistry either on or off the ice. I'm not sure how implementing a system where creating a new team is discouraging is supposed to increase the competitiveness of the league. Just something to keep in mind.

I agree. Name it "Challenger division" or something instead.

Dont you think divisions is a good incentive for teams to stick together? If what you are saying is true then a two division system would be fatal since ALL the top players would play in division 1 and it would be even more impossible for a division 2 club to attract players. ECL is a competitive tournament but with 3 divisions hopefully new clubs will find it easier to approach the tournament and doesn't get discouraged so easily and teams that don't "belong" there needs 2 months. I don't get why you say a year. I know every club is different and maybe our problem is specific to Synergy but we have huge problems playing these tournaments with 30 teams in the group. I'm not even sure we would be able to continue playing ECL if the group stage was this long every tournament. It kills the activity for regular eash-nights.

Same guy complaining about the guys complaining every year. Good job Imosi!

Well, looks like Viktor said what I was trying to say while I was typing my message.

Just speculating here, picking 16 teams with the best PPG for Elite right now: Written in the Stars Northern Stars Finnish Roosters X Factor Dynasty Nordic Blizzard Refuse to Lose White Trash Aapon Taikasauva Laser HT SIKA MUKIMIEHET Synergy Hockey Northern Ascendancy Nordic Lightning Nordic Nightmare Pro teams looking for promotion would include Sjukstugan, Fat Cats, Alliance HT etc. Looking through the teams, the skill gap between the worst teams in Elite and the best teams in Pro is minimal and in some cases might even favor the Pro teams. Again, I'm just speculating here, but going through that list I could definitely pick at least two teams that - barring some big transfers - would get relegated 99% of the time. So I guess what i'm saying is that the promotion/relegation without a playoff is fine, but I would like to see that kind of qualification round implemented anyhow.

Great to see that you're limiting season length to 8 weeks in the future =) Becouse I think that actually matters the most when our goal is to reach enjoyable and competive leagues for as many as possible. IMO ecl 2 was way better format than ecl3 this year. Since ECL2 was such an intense tournament and not many did walk away during it. I don't really have an strong opinion about them divisions but I do hope that them players who still want to compete against them best will get their shot for it. I also wish that casual gamers/teams could have their own tournaments if they're not even trying to reach the Elite division. And big thanks for NHLgamer staff and whole community of these tournaments that already have been played. NHLgamer is doing great job by offering NHL EASHL scene platform like this to establish teams to faceoff each other on the ice in league games =) Sincerely, kjkj

Yes, I know, I am very smart.

Huh...interesting. You are pretty much dismissing the arguments based on what teams we belong to. We know we are not representing the whole community and we know Jesus is not either. But it's up to anyone to discuss the matter no one here can force other members to voice their opinions although I also would like to hear them. We are also mostly discussing your point of view. We have barely discussed the fact that it is boring for those of us who keep spending a lot of time with this game to be faced with newly started teams (veterans or newcomers) every tournament. In my opinion I think the Pro division will be competitive...this is important to make teams stick. If you fail to reach the elite or gets relegated you will still have a very competitive tournament/season ahead of you. I would like to hear your proposition for the two division system though

@Jnmxxx The auto-relegated spot raises the stakes of the points race in the regular season for bottom teams in higher divisions. Can't you trade a little bit of competitiveness (and really as has been exposed, that bit is so little that it might not even exist at all) for some extra excitement? It's also a reward for teams that suffer through entier lower division reason and playoffs win. I think it's fine to give a guaranteed spot (or 2 as it is described but I think 1 would be better, anyway same principle). On a side note I quite dislike the top-player-centric turn this discussion seems to be taking. Also, I feel like the valid points I make are being drwoned in petty quarrels, that's not cool.

You've got a point. But on the other hand you're one step closer to a closed division if you dont. And we're trying to avoid that

My point. You can never make everyone happy, whatever decision we make

I understand some of the concern in here, however I want to add to two of the points mentioned here: 3 instead of 2 divisions It is an important factor when it comes to timing. In my opinion (which does not represent the whole staff), it is important to create a dynamic environment which can only be achieved if it is possible to make noticeable leaps within one year (here: go from Div 3 to Div 1 within one year). With 2 divisions, I'm not sure if we meet the purpose of a division system. It would be no different to the current system if we break it down to the basics. Player base / available players 32 teams in Div 1/2 will not bloat their roster with an infinite amount of players (it does not work). In fact, if we compare the amount of players (32 x 10 = 320) with the amount of registered members, we end up with lots of free agents. On top of that, I have a feeling the general EASHL player base grew slightly compared to last year. Also, don't underestimate the effect we as a community can have to draw existing NHL players into the EASHL mode if we do exciting stuff. I agree about the community size so far, but what is your alternative? Wait and see until it's crumbling down? I'm not that kind of guy. And I know Kenu and the other staff guys aren't either. Let's just act and do new things instead of shutting down, eh?

This is where our opinion differs mate. A whole lot of mediocre teams will more or less always be the punching bags of the tournament as the format is now. A 3 division format would give all these teams some sort of realistic yet still very much competetive meaning and purpose. Heck i would even watch a BO7 series between a top div 3 team and a bottom div 2 just to see what team gets promoted. Man that shit is thrilling . Those same 2 teams playing against eachother in a "bigger division 2" groupstage (Billy mentioned grind)? Not nearly as interesting. Oh well, im not trying to talk anyone over. Of course people are gonna have different opinions about this. Im sure it will turn out fine in the end. PISS OUT!

Do not name the third division "amateur". A whole lot of experienced players will have to start out in that div. Spare them some dignity, they're not amateurs Regarding the division system: Not a day to soon. Great news!

This is interesting. I have not yet decided if I like the idea or not. But I have a question.. Is there a though behind making it a 3 tier/3 divisions system - elite (1), pro (2) and amateur (3) instead of a 2 tier/3 divisions system - elite (1) and 2x pro (2.1 and 2.2)? I think that a 2 tier/3 divisions system has more benefits. The top teams can compete against each other in the top division but you shorten the way for the bottom teams to reach the top league by placing them one tier below elite. This will also make the new teams facing some better teams instead of just facing "amateurs" thus letting them grow better and faster. It would also let teams like CoG that Jesus are talking about above skip playing in the amateur league with a non amateur team. I do see cons with this system as well, of course. I just wanted to know the thoughts behind the decision. /H. Sandström

In my opinion this would be a big step forward. Good job! Only thing that I've been wondering would it be better if that draft cup would be organized as the first tournament after release of each new NHL game because it would be possibly easier to find new players at that time.

@cHIIMEERa Ok. Well for the last few posts the discussion was about how best to decide the bottom 2 spots in Division 1. Also, the great majority of contributions to the discussion comes from D1 bound teams and that's less than representative of what the community thinks (although I have always suspected that this is a big gathering of sheep so maybe you are indeed the only guys who care about anything, but I digress...). It's too easy to promote a system where you don't suffer from any of its downsides. It's too easy to say "I get it you're mad" and leave out the "but please bite the bullet so I can have the best time for my top guy self". It's too easy to discard comments as coming from bitter low division people. Look at Silenttio's reply to Jesus it reads like "You wanna be in D1, tough shit dude". I have never mentioned agreeing with Jesus's crusade here but I do agree with him that some voices from the bottom would be welcome. They will make out the biggest portion of the new league after all. And I'm repeating myself, but the bottom guys should NOT be the biggest portion, it should be the middle guys. Whatever, FML. @Jnmxxx You're welcome.

Top team (JUST 1 - Winner of Pro div) are going to play in Elite Div! 2nd team playing with 15th(if there is 16) from Elite div - Best of seven! Simply - Winner secures their place in Elite division, others have to battle! PS - Motivation

Look at the bigger picture here. You will not be able to build a good team in division 3. Yet to get the hell out of there, you have to not only win the division but also win a bo7-series, only to be able to start building your team. If your #15 or #16 you don't belong with the big dogs. People have to understand what the consequence of divisions is. It means a divided league with most players flocking to the top division. The lowest division will be completely dead of talent. A wasteland, if you so will. I want two divisions because a lot of talent will stay in both divisions since instead of huge rosters in div 1, many players will start over in division 2. That way new teams and new collaborations will emerge.

I'm not going to argue on this subject anymore since i feel that we are not going anywhere in this conversation. I'm sure everybody got my point and i understand your point so i guess we just have to agree to disagree. Once more, its stupid

Gigantic rosters? Just because they would have chance to part of Elite team's roster, with playing 0 games? 8-10 is normal roster, what is gigantic? The problem here is not that huge. It'll be just like it is today. Feels like the problem is that you (or other bottom teams) dont have easy road no more to the Top league, to play in the league where everyone wants to play. Most of your arguments around your point of view (low tier team) dont convince me at all. @Jnmxxx has a fair point here but I think playing 30 regular season games (5 week time period) would be enough to solve that where you belong to. @cHIIMEERa said it well: that would bring Divisions more closed than they will be with this system. This brings more hunger and victory feeling to teams who go far in Div2 & Div3 playoffs. I mean seriously, if you're last in 30-game season, it's time to give someone else the chance. For an example, if SIKA plays very bad Elite season and Sjukstugan plays big in Div2 by winning the whole Pro league, I'd say they deserve the place in the Elite and we would need to shake things up to be better next season.

This is something i can agree with you. And by the way if we would put those 12 "elite" teams in regular season, there would still be few punching bags who would most likely finish the tournament only with few wins.

It's not that simple. One reason why most leagues have 2 spots open for the newcomers is the fact that div 2 teams rarely competes with div 1 fairly. Div 2 usually, don't have the resources of attracting as good players. They can only start building, when they reach division 1. So in fact. To only have play in will always be in favor of the div 1 team. Not fair play.

Thats the thing. I dont think there are enough "PRO" teams that can contest "The Elites" in a BO7

I didn't say any names. And NOW is the time to discuss about the changes. I hope we get as many opinions as possible. I understand your fear about teams and players stops playing but this is a good start and I think we should try it. I'm sorry, I haven't had the time to read all the posts. But few guys have good ideas for making the 2nd division wider, but in the end we are in the same situation as we are now. I'm sure people thinks 2 division is bad. It is not I can assure you. It's gonna be really really tough in both upper divisions and you will have 3 (3 ecls) opportunities to be promoted to division 2 and the to) division one. Summarum. It's gonna be a lots of drama in upcoming tournament and good teams/top teams will get relegated and good teams will get promoted. I also really like that there is gonna be tournaments all around the year in the future. But what's in it for I'm gonna retire anyway some day AGAIN;)...

It's far from closed division since every team still will have a chance to get promoted to elite division. If they are not good enough to beat #15 and #16 in relegation series then they are not good enough to play in elite division. It's really simple and im actually amazed that somebody will talk about "competitive" divisions and still leaves a chance that actually elite division does not have the top 16 teams in there.

No, there won't be many good players available. In this tournament, there was perhaps 300 players who played more than 20 games. The player pool will also be smaller with this system. The best we can hope for is bigger rosters in already existing teams. However, since most GMs will only front 6-8 guys, most guys will lose interest and stop playing. Reality is that even guy #10 on a div 1 or div 2 team, will not get himself traded to a division 3 team. You also talk about a growing EASHL. Well, it dosen't matter. You will not be able to sell NHLgamer with the argument "Come and play in division 3". EASHL-teams is already dead and tired of divisions and the road to division 1. Now you make them go through more divisions again, in order for them to compete. In fact, you use the old Rammjagsingh-tactic of not making things accessible. You talk about a dynamic league. Well, there will still be leaps between divisions every tournament with two divisions. How dynamic is it to have a lot of ok teams in division 3? For most div 3 teams, there won't be any leaps anyhow. So there is nothing dynamic about it. Let's focus on making div 1 and 2 dynamic and more fun instead.

Why there is 2 guaranteed promotion and relegation spots? IMO there should always be promotion/relegation series. If theres guarenteed promotions then there is huge chance that there is NOT 16 best teams in elite division. Just plain stupid.

Same guys complaining every year that we need changes and this site is lacking stuff and staff. Now that there is coming big changes, they complain about that as well. Good job boys!

Whether we have been active or not is irelevant to the point of having 2 divisions instead of 3. It will be 2 months for some, but for most ok teams it will rather be a year. Most ok teams will never continue trying to reach div 2 and div 3 will be killed off whether you like it or not. It also depends on how much this exceptional status-thing is abused. If rarely used the top of division 3 will be tougher than people expect, which also will kill the fun for lesser teams. In the end however, the staff will be forced to be more liberal in the ruling if they don't want to see to many good players stop playing. History tells us that not many players stick with each other for long. We should give them a natural plattform to start over. To me it's also kind of weird talking about taking NHL to a e-sport level, and then talk about exceptional status for certain teams. How is this e-sport worthy? Again. This wouldn't be a problem with two divisions. I don't like the fact that all new teams will be crippled from the start. My perspective is actually kind of important here, since I represent someone who was thinking about starting a new club. This system award players who instead of starting a new club, tries to get themselfs traded to another team. The community will really hurt from this. There is no growing potential with this system.

I'm not even against a 3-division system but you're either lying or wrong here. Even 2 divisions are fundamentally different from a group based tournament. Anyway I am still waiting for a rationale for making the least enjoyable part of your league, the 3rd division, the biggest part of it, and probably trending up. I would at the very least balance that out by offering a lot more spots in the balance between D2 and D3. I'd be cool with this: - Start D3 playoffs at round of 16. - D3 playoff winner takes D2 last place in D2 - other 7 D3 quarter finalists do relegation stage vs D2 #9 to #15 Before anyone says that's too much turnover, it's justified turnover if teams win their promotion, right? But more importantly, I want to say it again coz I don't want it to be lost in the other shit I write, the middle division should be the bigger division imo. By the way...I vote for naming divisions Hobbit division, LOTR division and Silmarillion division, from worst to best obviously. Another Tolkien book joke. I'm on (secret) fire!

Pfft, what does League of Legends know of eSports anyways?

I dont wanna be a sourpuss but, League of Legends highest achievable tier (progamers basicly) is called challenger.

You can do everything what you want in these "division" or no divisions the endresult wouldbe same as last tries, but if you go while a back "EHL" and there was a 2x20teams group and 16 did go to playoffs in both sides it was actually pretty nice in that way and all played to the end. (yeah i understand that we need still division),You dont have to be a sherlock if you guys thinked that this 30teams group willwork and all teams would play to end off regular season.. well i gues you were wrong again. Then we go to the this new(old) division system 16 teams and 8 goes to Poffs = is total hit to the face of this community. Still dont get why you have to make it all new systems to this after all a little community and now i think you just make it more little. Were are not even a close of those biggames like CS:GO, etc. and still you trying to make this something like that in this system. its not possiple with this community side. I think you guys just make a idiotic choise and you make this "ecl" community just smaller and we all will see that again. My conclusion = this will falldown hard and you wrecked half of this year game. (i hope im wrong)

I think that if the expansion of ECL teams follows that of NHLGamer users in any sort of way, you'll soon get half of the teams in the "amateur" division. I myself am not necessarily against the 3 division system but I think the middle division should have the most players, not the bottom division. Now yuou can discard my observation as trying to get myself into Division 2, and I guess it's also true, but I really do feel that there is a small-ish amount of top teams, a small-ish amount of bad teams, and the majority is average and so if the goal of division is to separate teams by playing ability the middle should be biggest. Also, I certainly don't speak for the whole community by any means but at least if, in the event that we try to bring back CoG, we're slotted in the bottom division, what is likely gonna happen is we won't be able to recruit good players and as a result we will not take part in the tourney. Maybe Jesus can join some team but I'm pretty sure Raixor and I will just "retire". To be honest I'm thinking about quitting this ECL given the unlikelyhood of my current club reaching playoffs because what's the point anymore? If I'm gonna retire anyway after this why would I suffer through the end of this fucking grind of a tournament we are currently playing? So while the jury is still out on whether this division system will grow the community, there will be at least one casualty of the system... ...Which is ironic since I've been championning a division system since forever ago. Oh well, you know what they say... FML.

@Jesus, I get it mostly, but how it's going to be different with top players playing only in top divisions. When this have happened before? When some superstar player has just decided to get some low tier team to the playoffs, or anything like that? Unknown did it with NOR but Unknown didn't have full team that season, and "half" of them got NOR to next level. Cool story but not the one we're looking for here. They could still make stories like this happen though. When I think these things, I always think how this and that guy from that team would feel about this. I just see big opportunity here to other teams earn their spots with the big boys, and make name for themselves by playing. Building the team - if they're new - learning the game and still playing against better teams in EASHL. That's how you get better, that's how you practice. Playing two league-games per season against some good teams is nothing compared to grinding EASHL - odds are pretty bad for the new team anyways if they would play in the Div2 with second biggest dogs in the world. C'mon guys. For once, try to think three divisions positively. These days there are so many good teams around that there will be tough teams and players in Div2 next season, for sure. Why we shouldn't have everybody abroad? I cant see the big problem here. Sure, bad teams will play in Div3, okay, so what, thats logical right? If/when some "good" team gets relegated to 3div, I think they are in the right spot then as some other more hungry teams have battled for spot in the 2div, and earned it. Less scaring of things changing and more competing. Period. And @cHIIMEERa, I think they have amateur leagues, teams and players in real life as well and they're not mad about what their called of. How about Platinum, Gold and Silver championships? I know right...